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It depends whether you want to play absolutely the best team to win now, or whether you have an eye on the future to blood people who can give you the best chance of winning the 4N and World Cup.

In my opinion they've got it right on Williams/McGuire - Williams is a talent who should be better for this experience. We'd benefit from McGuire's kicking game right now, but for Williams hopefully this will come.

England are better set-up for strength and depth at the moment than they've been since the early 90s. Just need the coach to make use of it.

FB Hardaker/Tomkins/Lomax
W Hall/Burgess/McGillvary/Briscoe
C Watkins/Reed/Percival/Sarginson
HB Widdop/Williams/Sutcliffe/Gale
P Graham/Hill/GBurgess/TBurgess/Walmsley/Cooper
H Roby/Hodgson/Clark
SR Whitehead/Farrell/Ferres/Ward/Bateman
LF SBurgess/Cuthbertson/O'Loughlin

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Quote: craigizzard "It depends whether you want to play absolutely the best team to win now, or whether you have an eye on the future to blood people who can give you the best chance of winning the 4N and World Cup.

In my opinion they've got it right on Williams/McGuire - Williams is a talent who should be better for this experience. We'd benefit from McGuire's kicking game right now, but for Williams hopefully this will come.

England are better set-up for strength and depth at the moment than they've been since the early 90s. Just need the coach to make use of it.

FB Hardaker/Tomkins/Lomax
W Hall/Burgess/McGillvary/Briscoe
C Watkins/Reed/Percival/Sarginson
HB Widdop/Williams/Sutcliffe/Gale
P Graham/Hill/GBurgess/TBurgess/Walmsley/Cooper
H Roby/Hodgson/Clark
SR Whitehead/Farrell/Ferres/Ward/Bateman
LF SBurgess/Cuthbertson/O'Loughlin'"


Don't think that you will see Sarginson playing for England with him going to RU, and O'Loughlin will be to old for the test in 2017.

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SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled. For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all. Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg



Quote: Middleton_Loiner "The problem with this is exactly what has been said. Williams nor Smith will be the Halves in 2017. They swap and change depending on who has had a decent club season.

Instead of trying out different Halves year on year, why not have them play the in the England Knights Team and play the Australian Schoolboys and Kiwi Schoolboys and bring them up together like a Club would?

Then you can introduce a Solid pairing in years to come whilst playing the old heads in the meantime.'"


The Australian schoolboys team are 18 year olds, and have been beaten by the England academy on their last two or three tours over here.

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[quote="Jamie Peacock MBE":af0ys02h]'There's been a couple of times during my career when I've thought about moving elsewhere but, when I run out in front of 17,000, 18,000 people at Headingley, I've thought 'nah, this is the place for me'.[/quote:af0ys02h] [img:af0ys02h]http://orig08.deviantart.net/430a/f/2012/119/7/9/wolverine_sign_by_zekua-d4xydfq.jpg[/img:af0ys02h]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_62325.gif



Quote: Rogues Gallery "The Australian schoolboys team are 18 year olds, and have been beaten by the England academy on their last two or three tours over here.'"

What I'm getting at is, their should be a 2 tier system at International level to develop and bring through young talent without throwing them into Test Series or Tournaments playing with players they've never played with and against some of the best Athletes in the game.

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SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled. For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all. Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg



Quote: Middleton_Loiner "What I'm getting at is, their should be a 2 tier system at International level to develop and bring through young talent without throwing them into Test Series or Tournaments playing with players they've never played with and against some of the best Athletes in the game.'"


In the last academy touring squad to Australia, Joe Burgess, Ben Currie and George Williams were present.

In the 2013 England Knights team Zak Hardaker, Tom Burgess, Josh Hodson, Brett Ferres and Elliott Whitehead all played.

The problem IMO is that we don't play enough International RL to bring players through, but that's partly due to the apathy of the average (I'm only interested in my club) RL supporter.

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Quote: Rogues Gallery "In the last academy touring squad to Australia, Joe Burgess, Ben Currie and George Williams were present.

In the 2013 England Knights team Zak Hardaker, Tom Burgess, Josh Hodson, Brett Ferres and Elliott Whitehead all played.

The problem IMO is that we don't play enough International RL to bring players through, but that's partly due to the apathy that the average (I'm only interested in my club) RL supporter.'"


More to do with lack of teams. No one is really interested in us playing France or Wales or Samoa. They're only interested in playing New Zealand or the Aussies because the others just aren't good enough to get bothered about.

I've said it before, you can't have a serious and fuller international schedule when you really only have three teams in it at top level.

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"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin [url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o] [url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o] This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif



Quote: ThePrinter "More to do with lack of teams. No one is really interested in us playing France or Wales or Samoa. They're only interested in playing New Zealand or the Aussies because the others just aren't good enough to get bothered about.'"


Which is why those are the kind of games that the England Knights or a similar second tier England side should be playing, while the England elite side are taking on the Aussies and Kiwis. Maybe pitch them as double headers, Knights v Wales as the warm-up, England v New Zealand/Australia as the main course.

Gets the next generation of young players used to the international setup, being away in camp, learning new structures alongside players from other clubs.

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SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled. For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all. Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg



Quote: Andy Gilder "Which is why those are the kind of games that the England Knights or a similar second tier England side should be playing, while the England elite side are taking on the Aussies and Kiwis. Maybe pitch them as double headers, Knights v Wales as the warm-up, England v New Zealand/Australia as the main course.

Gets the next generation of young players used to the international setup, being away in camp, learning new structures alongside players from other clubs.'"


I agree, but somehow we have to get speccies through the gates to fund it, and that is a major problem.

On a positive note I've just been told that there are only about 5K tickets left for Saturday, and only around 3K for the game at Wigan. Anything close to two sellouts would be great news.

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1 Warrington 2 Hull 3 Wigan 4 Castleford 4 Castleford 5 St Helens 6 Leeds 7 Catalans 8 Hudedersfield 9 Widnes 10 Wakefield 11 Salford 12 Leigh Playoffs:Warrington Hull Wigan Castleford Four sides rejoining: Widnes Wakefield Salford Leigh GF Winners Warrington CC Winners Wigan:



It's more important & better for the game to sell out the Olympic Stadium.
The problem as ever is cost when the end of the season is the most expensive time for those supporters of the top teams with the expense of cup semis & the final, followed almost immediately by the cost of the play-offs & the Grand Final.

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Unsurprisingly the same 19 announced for the 2nd test.

The 17 who played plus Westwood and Cudjoe.

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Quote: Rogues Gallery "I agree, but somehow we have to get speccies through the gates to fund it, and that is a major problem.

On a positive note I've just been told that there are only about 5K tickets left for Saturday, and only around 3K for the game at Wigan. Anything close to two sellouts would be great news.[/quot

Says now that Wigan is a sell out great news.

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"Look, I'd never use injuries as an excuse..." Daryl Powell:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_23603.jpg



Test rugby seems to be undergoing some sort of renaissance. Following on from the WC, crowds are undoubtedly higher than most wold have expected. Perhaps hopes of a legacy weren't misplaced.

It needs to be built on; as Rogues says, international development is to some extent governed by numbers prepared to pay to watch what's on offer. The idea of a series for tomorrow's players is sound. To me, it offers a deal more than the recent game the seniors played against France.

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[quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good. At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg



I wouldn't say it's undergoing a renaissance. I just think the people running the game are starting to realise that creating big events is what gets people interested in attending these kind of games. having test matches at places like Leigh just sends out the wrong image to the wider public.
Also, having test match RL back on free to air has helped too IMO.

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



A think the attendances also show how well and strong the New Zealand team have done over the last few years.

GB/Eng vs Aus was always the big one over here, and whilst facing New Zealand was also big it fell behind playing Aus in the pecking order. But this fixture particularly off the back of the games in 2013 & 2014 between the two has increased the appetite to see them face off again.

It will be interesting to see what grounds/capacity get Eng vs Aus and Eng vs New Zealand in the next Four Nations in England.

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Quote: Charlie Sheen "I wouldn't say it's undergoing a renaissance. I just think the people running the game are starting to realise that creating big events is what gets people interested in attending these kind of games. having test matches at places like Leigh just sends out the wrong image to the wider public.
Also, having test match RL back on free to air has helped too IMO.'"


That's a renaissance in my book icon_wink.gif

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