No domestic trophies though, as far as I remember?

I see what Charlie Sheen was getting at.

That can depend as much on the team that he plays for as his own contribution. See SL for example, plenty of quality players have failed to win SL whilst many run of the mill players have got rings on their fingers.

Yep.

Sam Burgess is no Ian Kirke.

Legacy wise, that is.

FIVE-NIL!

I completely agree. It isn't a point I entirely agree with, I just see the point of view.

I also wonder whether when players come to look back on their careers a lack of silverware is something that bothers them. I think it would me. On the other hand, a move to RU gives him a realistic chance of winning a World Cup. An outside chance, but a realistic one.

Yep.

Sam Burgess hasn't achieved anything in RL.

Ian Kirke has won 5 SL Grand Final winners and can boast of being an integral part of a "legacy".

Sam Burgess wouldn't even know what a "legacy" is.

And he is definitely no Ian Kirke.

Yep, we can all agree on that.

2/10

Bet Ian Kirke can dead lift more than Sam.

Team Ian.

It's just a job and Sam fancies a new career path (probably sweetened by a really big pile of money). Good luck to the lad, it's nice to have the option. I may even see him down at Bath.

It will be interesting to see where Bath play him, maybe they will be "asked" to develop him as a back but Bath have Jonathan Joseph and Kyle Eastmond who are both already capped for England in the centres and are real quality. I'd love to see him play no.8.

I don't think Burgess has anything to prove in RL, I actually think anyone who has played at the highest club level and managed to gain (pretty much automatic) selection for their national side has done pretty well. In a salary capped sport some great players are going to end up winning bugger all at club level and others are going to end up with a fist full of championship rings.

I would say that his chances of having success with England in the RU WC depend very much on how much longer England persist with having Farrell junior and senior as key member of the set up. It's no coiincidence that the best the England backs have looked since Clive Woodward's early years was on the tour of Argentina in the summer.

Totally agree especially about young Farrell what an over rated player he is. Wouldn't mind but his kicking is pretty naff too which can usually guarantee you a place.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I can't agree with you on this one I'm afraid. I think Burgess is a much better player than Kirke. But we can agree to differ if you think otherwise.

Maybe, if rings/ medals were so important to Sam he should have joined leeds when the rumours were abounding. surely if medals were so important he would have jumped at the chance of joining on a Kirkesque salary rather than travel to the other side of the world.

Can we leave Ian Kirke alone at all?

It's f*******g embarrassing.

Sorry, I was just pointing out that within the restraints of the salary cap you can't have a team full of Sam Burgess's.

Not sure the marquee player is the way to go but its good to see we are willing to do something.