according to Dave 'nosey' Parker today Webb is staying 1 more year and Senior going to Leeds Carnegie?

Cannot see the Webb rumour being true given the Widnes rumours and the fact we have BJB/Hardaker/Smith to play there

I read that as well but apparantly he just talks rubbish and gets his rummors from us on here talking rubbish!

What is happening now is transient. There is nothing to say that if we go out and sign Brough and let Burrow go that this time next year we arent complaining about losing a well liked and respected member of the squad who had earned plenty of success and international recognition and was part of a GF winning squad 2years ago and replaced him with a known troublemaker who lacks discipline and has spent most of his career having his class swamped by an ocean of less than average displays.
Not quite, i think that a better pack and better systems will create more space and allow Mcguire/Sinfield and Burrow to again show what they have shown more than any other players for the past 7 years.
Im sure he was flattering to deceive whilst Eddie was running his Briers for Britain campaign whilst Burrow was man of the series against the Kiwis. Im sure Briers was flattering to deceive when Sinfield/Mcguire and Burrow have won 4 grand finals and appeared in 5 of the last 7 grand finals whilst Briers has a proud record of winning 1 whole play-off game, 5 years ago.
No he isnt, he is having a good season, so what, Burrow has had good seasons, Mcguire was comfortably better last season,

I was thinking about this over the weekend. Its obvious we need a bit of a clear out.

Now St Helens, have managed to stay pretty much in the top 2 for the last 10 years or so, and have managed transitions between squads well. However, 1 GF win since 2002 is not a brilliant record for a team that hasn't really had a dip as such.

So the question is:

Do we prefer to accept that a year or two transition happy that we have seen probably the greatest ever SL team in action, or yearn for more consistency even if it is at the expense of actual championship success.

This is a salary capped sport, and no-one will have a prolonged period of success. We are also repaying the loyalty the players have shown us. Again, not great short term, but I think in the long term it will be well recognised that Leeds is a club which can be sucessful and look after its players

You are still harking on about what happened 2/3 years ago not what is happening now - I agree this squad has won GF's but again that is in the past - Burrow has had good seasons but that is in the past. McGuire was the best half back in the league in 2010 but that is not now.

What Briers did 3/4 years ago is as relevant now as what Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow did in 2009. What is relevant is what happened on Friday, what happened at Warrington earlier in the season and what happened in the 2010 CC final.

I am not saying we should sign Brough for one minute - all I am saying is right now he and Briers are the best half backs in SL - what both have is a quality kicking game - something Leeds do not have.

It is about evolution not stagnation.

because the point I am making is form is transient. If what Mcguire/Sinfield and Burrow proved over the last 7/8/9 years is irrelevant then so is half a season of good form from Brough and Briers.

There is no reason for us to assume that two players whose form and commitment has been inconsistent at best will now forever be at the top of their form and fully committed whilst three players whose form and commitment has for a long time been beyond question have suddenly and irrevocably become rubbish.

What history has told us is that in the future, Burrow, Sinfield and Mcguire are likely to regain form and hit their straps whereas Briers and Brough are currently playing above the levels they have hit throughout their careers and if anything are likely to regress.

Why is 2010 relevant but not 2009? either we are basing our predictions for the future on what has happened in the past or we arent. You seem to want base your view on what has happened in the past but only on a very small window of time. Which I think is preventing you seeing the bigger picture.

Briers and Brough arent evolution, they are 32 and 28 respectively. They both do have a quality kicking game, Sinfield has a quality kicking game and Mcguire has a quality short kicking game. Im not sure what you are wanting is evolution, more simply change for the sake of change.

Where are you going to these replacements from.For mine we need to replace Senior,Ali and Kirke.Unfortunatly we may be stuck with Cross and Hauraki both contracted for next season.

Players leaving (or should be leaving) will, IMO, include:
Webb - BJB
Senior - Watkins
Leuluai - Ambler
Cross - New Signing
Burgess - New Signing, but would prefer him to stay
Hauraki - Clarkson
Lauitiiti - New Signing
Kirke - New Signing

So that's 8 players leaving, and at least 3 new signings, maybe 4. Lots of work to do for GH...

IMO I'm not sure we know whether Ambler is good enough...... Yet.... But he might be. Very much 'a work in progress' for me.

At the moment he is playing in a very poor team and whilst reports are he's doing ok I don't see him/read about him pulling up trees.

I liken the arguments about Ambler and Amor being the answer to our pack problems to other sports whereby players out of a team are always bigged up to be the answer and held in higher esteem etc to what maybe their performances have deserved?

I think in sport in general it's always the players in the team that get the critism and people think/say bring player 'X' in because he is great and scoring lots of runs/goals/tries in the reserves/county team etc but then when they get the chance sometimes those That had been calling for their inclusion soon come to the conclusion they are doing no better than the person they wanted acing in their place.

Look at Tom Bush. Last season when he got brought in against Wigan away and dud well, many were saying what a star in the making he was and how impressed they were and how he was another 'young gun' coming from our long production line......look at where he is now.

Time will tell whether Ambler and/or Amor are any better than the pack options we currently have. Personally I don't think they are.... AT THE MOMENT ( and the club must agree as otherwise they wouldn't be where they are now) BUT in a year or two they may prove to be better than what we currently have?

One way or another we will soon get the chance to find out if the likes of Kirke and Bailey are released on top of the likely departure of Burgess to the NRL at the end of thus season and possible retirements of JP and Kylie over the next season.

As long as we don't expect anyone to pay us a fee should be able to offload both of them. We should really be paying the other teams to take em!

A YOUNG halfback with the abilty to take control with a good kicking game is still a priority ...followed by a quality proven centre IMO.

I appreciate the need to give kids a chance, but you seem to want to put them all in at once. Kids need to be introduced to a winning team slowly and only a couple at a time, or they will sink not swim.

Btw, Amor isn't going to make it, trust me. We can have this discussion in another 12/24 months time and I will still have the same view