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Quote: Sal Paradise "The second row is an issue for me agree about Ward but I didn't see anything in Ferres to suggest he is anything special in fact the number of penalties he gives away is a serious negative. Ablett has been a great player but like JJB his best days are well behind him. Jimmy is average at best.

Anyone who thinks Sutcliffe can perform anything close to where Hardaker was in 2015 is mistaken - he isn't defensively in the same league, running with ball same better in the line yes but his negatives far out weight his positives to Hardaker c2015.'"


Ferres is a top back rower as is Ablett when fit, there aren't many I would take in SL over them two.Throw ward back in the mix and I really do think you are wide of the mark on it being a weak areas for us, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Sutcliffe is a wait and see player for next year, Not many get close to Zak as a defensive FB but like others have pointed out, he brings plenty more to the table in the other areas that Zak was deficient in particularly ball in hand.

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“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21 A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg



Quote: RHINO-MARK "
Mags/Burrow are way past their best Lilley is still learning & our pack is carrying plenty of 30+'s on a downward injury prone spiral.'"


While both great players in their day I am not sure what a HB like Lilley can learn form them, apart from professionalism. He is not likely to put on 10m of pace by watching old GF replays.

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Sut, or any other SL fullback for that matter, wouldn't get close to Zak's 2015 defence. He might well improve on his 2016 efforts though when, as well as looking low on confidence and high on indecisiveness, he also looked simply reluctant to run any risk of getting hurt.

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Quote: Clearwing "Sut, or any other SL fullback for that matter, wouldn't get close to Zak's 2015 defence. He might well improve on his 2016 efforts though when, as well as looking low on confidence and high on indecisiveness, he also looked simply reluctant to run any risk of getting hurt.'"

Given he was playing jabbed up until May ,without any kind of pre-season & in a new role for a Team in woeful form devoid of any inspiration on/off the pitch i think that's way ott.

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Quote: RHINO-MARK "Given he was playing jabbed up until May ,without any kind of pre-season & in a new role for a Team in woeful form devoid of any inspiration on/off the pitch i think that's way ott.'"


There are always reasons behind poor performance and the ones you list are perfectly valid. But to assume automatically that Sutty's defence will be inferior very much depends on which period of Zak's career you wish to focus upon.

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Let's be fair, Lilley is young and clearly has not got the skill set (yet!) to be a top quality leader and playmaker for Leeds. My concern is how he goes about "learning" the skills he is missing. No doubt Maguire and Burrow have in the past, and to a certain extent still have some great skills set. Great players though, rarely make great coaches. Mentors maybe, facilitators of learning often less so. Who at the club specialises in how people actually LEARN.

I am a coach myself, admittedly not rugby but it doesn't really matter as it's still skill acquisition at the end of the day. What environments bring out movement changes, how do players learn best, how can they perform skills in context with the actual game of rugby league. These are the questions I hope the coaching staff all have as basic skill sets themselves.

Do Leeds behind all their "whistles and bells" actually have really quality coaches? I don't know the answer to this. I have seen some of the Embedded Pathway coaching and I am not entirely convinced by some of the methods. I appreciate Leeds haven't signed up to this but I would be intrigued to see what methods our coaches employ. Are we merely seeing players come through as a result of a simple numbers game?

Humans are clever (!) and set the appropriate tasks can self organise. This way is proven to facilitate the learning of new skills better than the "do this" "do that" approach that sadly seems a pre disposed trait of ex/current players trying to pass on knowledge. Are the coaches who develop these young "talents" highly educated in skill acquisition or are we seeing a culture of "we have always done it this way" beginning to rear its ugly head??

Just my thoughts but would be interested to hear others.

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Quote: Clearwing "There are always reasons behind poor performance and the ones you list are perfectly valid. But to assume automatically that Sutty's defence will be inferior very much depends on which period of Zak's career you wish to focus upon.'"

In all honesty mate i aren't focussing on any part of Zaks Leeds career he's on his way out.
My thoughts are purely about Sutty & his future at FB if he stays there. icon_thumb.gif
The Coaching side does concern me not just collectively but individually like FB 6 ,7 etc but i do think Sutty will prove his worth given the time & backing etc.

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[quote="Gotcha in 2016":12w08s93]McDermott is going. I actually think he is more relaxed because of it, and seems to have let the shackles go. He apparently asked to finish the season, and that is what they agreed.[/quote:12w08s93] :lol: :lol: :lol::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_11388.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "The second row is an issue for me agree about Ward but I didn't see anything in Ferres to suggest he is anything special in fact the number of penalties he gives away is a serious negative. Ablett has been a great player but like JJB his best days are well behind him. Jimmy is average at best.

Anyone who thinks Sutcliffe can perform anything close to where Hardaker was in 2015 is mistaken - he isn't defensively in the same league, running with ball same better in the line yes but his negatives far out weight his positives to Hardaker c2015.'"


Wow. Here's one for end of year review.

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Quote: JPrhino "Let's be fair, Lilley is young and clearly has not got the skill set (yet!) to be a top quality leader and playmaker for Leeds. My concern is how he goes about "learning" the skills he is missing. No doubt Maguire and Burrow have in the past, and to a certain extent still have some great skills set. Great players though, rarely make great coaches. Mentors maybe, facilitators of learning often less so. Who at the club specialises in how people actually LEARN.

I am a coach myself, admittedly not rugby but it doesn't really matter as it's still skill acquisition at the end of the day. What environments bring out movement changes, how do players learn best, how can they perform skills in context with the actual game of rugby league. These are the questions I hope the coaching staff all have as basic skill sets themselves.

Do Leeds behind all their "whistles and bells" actually have really quality coaches? I don't know the answer to this. I have seen some of the Embedded Pathway coaching and I am not entirely convinced by some of the methods. I appreciate Leeds haven't signed up to this but I would be intrigued to see what methods our coaches employ. Are we merely seeing players come through as a result of a simple numbers game?

Humans are clever (!) and set the appropriate tasks can self organise. This way is proven to facilitate the learning of new skills better than the "do this" "do that" approach that sadly seems a pre disposed trait of ex/current players trying to pass on knowledge. Are the coaches who develop these young "talents" highly educated in skill acquisition or are we seeing a culture of "we have always done it this way" beginning to rear its ugly head??

Just my thoughts but would be interested to hear others.'"


Great post 4.87255859375:5
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