Plenty have, we have good players, we have some world class players, we have players like Gareth Ellis, Sam Burgess, James Graham who are doing very very well in Australia, and very good young players like Ryan Hall and Sam Tomkins who are the equal of any player in their position for their age in RL.

We aren’t as good as a team or as a squad as the Australians and probably the kiwis at the moment, but it would be very naïve for that to extend to a belief that we are inferior man for man in every position. I would say that if every Australian, in every position was superior to every british player in every position then the Aussies are massively under-performing.

And players like Hall, Graham, Roby, Tomkins, would never have needed to get out of second gear playing against players whose speed, strength and fitness don’t even get close

They were players of their time, when the game could carry people who weren’t professional enough to make best use of their natural talent.

Really? The clear and obvious reasons why a tour in the middle of the home nations season would be unworkable in the modern era weren’t immediately obvious to you?

William,

There were a lot of cold winters in deserted stadiums in the period preceding Sl dating back to the last time GB won a series against the Aussies.

You;re looking back through Rose tinted glasses. For every Andy Gregory there were plenty of ray Ashtons.

As for your suggestion that Aussies on guest stints during a winter season would improve the state of our game then I'd beg to differ. I watched Craig Coleman and Mark Laurie go home when the business end of the season came around and David Cruikshank and Cavill heugh took their place. I also remember Saints flying Fatty vautin and Michael O'Connor back for a Challenge Cup Final appearances. That improved the quality of Saints display.....

None of those players are world class. Ellis and Graham are solid, Hall can finish but concedes as many due to defensive ineptitude, Tomkins and Burgess have the potential to become world class. They aren't there yet.


I doubt the Aussies will be losing much sleep over under-performance when they've won 23 out of 27 during the SL era, a not-insignificant number by blowout and record scorelines.


They rarely have had to get out of second gear throughout the vast majority of their SL careers... and that's the problem right there.


Careful. That interchange bench might tire out all those modern players which you hoist on to that SL pedestal of yours.


Yet another insecure SL supporter who spends most of their time worrying about what other sports are getting up to as opposed to what the sport can proactively do in order to benefit the game as a whole. That would include having the confidence to showcase your own events at the most feasible time in the calendar and that means a switch back to a winter season, providing the most appropriate window of opportunity for proper international tours and fixtures to take place.

Meninga became a legend at Saints, as did Kenny & Ferguson at Wigan, Sterlo at Hull, etc. But thanks for the selective memory negatives in order to push a one-eyed club-based agenda however. It'll always be the international game over club for me any day of the week. You may wax lyrical about the Rhinos team since 2004 as much as you like but none of those players have been effective at international level and the SL competition is a joke.

I'm more interested in the benefits accruing from more of our players employed on guest stints down under particularly during the 60's, and definitely during the late 80's and early 90's. Then there's also the experience of our players facing the likes of Miles, Meninga, Lewis et al during their guest stints in the UK. The benefits for the national side were proven during that period.

I don't give a flying youknowwhat that Leeds are SL champions when they then prove their worthlessness by getting hammered soon after against real quality opposition by scorelines such as 52-4. Others choose not to be interested so they may maintain their starry-eyed admiration for their respective Super League champion players and clubs. Not alluding to anyone in particular there of course

Hall is as good as any Australian winger, they aren’t particularly outstanding, any league where Manu Vatuvai can be a stand out winger isn’t blessed with an abundance of talent, The Fijian ringer the Aussies had drafted in isn’t anything more than solid defensively and under the bomb. Hall, if he were Australian would be knocking on the door of the Australian test squad if he wasn’t in it. There are players in the Kiwi and Australian squads who are no more than ‘solid’ the likes of Tamou, Lewis, Gillett aren’t a step above Graham or Ellis. Roby, whilst not Cam Smith is on a level with anyone else. Tomkins and Burgess do have the potential, as do other players

That being the case i would be disappointed with their lack of professionalism.
It certainly is, it is certainly a big part of the problem.
It’s a lot more tiring to tackle a modern day prop running it in from ten yards than to pull down some fat plodder running through treacle and without a head of steam.
What have other sports got to do with anything?

Its fairly clear to anyone who wants to actually think about it rather than respond with their pre-determined insults the issues we, as a sport, would have with trying to put on a tour in the middle of a professional sports season.

Even if tours were introduced it wouldn't help the game grow too much, just satisfy those who remember back to the 70's and 80's. In today's sporting world you can't only have just 3 proper teams at International level and expect it to be taken too seriously especially when England/GB will usually lose (which will still be the case no matter what format or changes we make because RL simply isn't as big over here and will never match how big it is over in Aus). The reason RU is bigger is how many proper teams they have at International level, can you imagine if they only had ENG/NZ/AUS, the 6 Nations wouldn't be around for a start.

And American Football shows that an International scene isn't a must to be able to succeed.

Aside from North American sports: Aussie Rules, Gaelic football, Sumo wrestling.....I'm sure there are others. Basketball remains very popular in many countries despite those countries not being at all close to the US standard at the sport.

Our obsession with our international results vs one country as a measure of the sport, rather than so many other possible measures, is bizarre.

Rubbish.All these players mentioned are world class.I would have thought the definition of World class was being able to walk into the majority of sides in the world,which is what all these players would.Ellis and Graham just 'solid'? Ive watched lots of NRL over last few years and both players have had a huge impact at their respective clubs, JG is in his first season and has become integral in the Bulldogs push to the top of the premiership.



It could also be argued that during this period GB were fortunate to have several of its all time greats around at the same time.Schofield,Offiah,Hanley and Robinson (maybe just after this period granted) and also had access to a non pro Union game which saw a certain Jonathan Davies come in and do some damage at international level.

Yet,we still didnt get a series victory over them despite this 'glory' period.I really cant see how you can atribute the likes of Meninga and lewis playing a handful of games in the early 80's and Miles playing 1 season(albeit a good one) in the twilight of his career as a proven reason as to why we competed for a couple of series.

Granted Hall isn't the best defensive winger ever, but if Offiah was playing today would he be? Would he also run the ball in a lot just like a forward on the first tackle whilst the real forwards are making their way back giving them a much needed breather?

Correct.

Hall isnt the best defensive winger in the world but certainly isnt the worst.His finishing ability alone would walk him into most sides and,as you say his graft bringing the ball back can be invalubale.

I don't know if anyone knows or cares. But the RFL made all its Rugby League schools development officers redundant to save money, except in Cumbria. They made the coaching coordinators redundant. I know this because I need to get my level two signed off and nobody is qualified to do it anymore. We can't get coaches into the amateur game properly. What bloody hope have we got?

Not here (the whole of the Midlands) they didn't.

From what I know they've got rid of a few and a lot more are fearing for their jobs (but haven't gone yet) because there is uncertainty over Sport England funding, apparently the participation numbers have fallen by quite a lot and so the funding is under threat. Although I have issues with how the participation numbers are done.