No sympathy for GH mate. He appointed a manager with no professional coaching experience, on the cheap. What did he really expect? Smith may still come good, as he’s learning on the job. Not his fault really……

To be fair, I think the club saw Burrow as a long-term coaching option, but we know what's happened since.

No professional coaching experience, except the eight years he'd spent as a professional head coach before he was appointed, and the eight years he'd spent as a professional assistant coach before that.

Agree. It was death by a thousand cuts, all the small decisions going Saints way, and Johnny Lomax once again proving what a great refs assistant he is. We aren’t a match for Saints man for man, but getting so many decisions going against us certainly doesn’t help. It’s quite obvious that some teams are favoured heavily over others, and the RFL’s disciplinary bias towards Saints, and against Leeds over the last few years, has been a sad indictment on the honesty of the governing body. Add to that the conscious bias from match officials towards certain clubs and players, and teams like Leeds are fighting an uphill battle. Lomax is a perfect example of a player constantly buzzing around officials and exerting his influence. It was beyond belief that he could get a player sent off for punching by simply telling an official he had been struck by McDonnell last season. A clear lie, and again a sad indictment on the honesty of RFL employees, this time the match officials that never saw the ghost punch yet went on the word of a favoured player.

You do relise that the forward pack you are slagging off have all been signed, or re-signed to longer deals by Smith?

At the same time, you are both....advocating Smith and his rebuild, whilst stating the players he's bringing in or re-signing for the rebuild are not good enough

Genuine question - what are all these incorrect or marginal decisions that went against Leeds given there is a narrative that every decision went against them?

As for players arms in the air - I sense a collective case of Newman-blindness.

Personally I don’t believe in sacking smith at this stage of the season. Unfortunately if we are mid table half way through the season he would have to walk the plank. Let’s not forget that last season was the transition period, he supposedly got rid of the deadwood ,so this season was to be a springboard to success. It’s the manner of last night’s defeat that irks supporters, we never at any stage looked capable of beating Saints. Take Newmans brilliant individual try out the equation and we have only managed to score one try over two games. You have to credit Saints as a club after the Cunningham debacle they have completely rebuilt the club. Two highly successful coaches turned the club around, looking at the Saints squad compared to ours. Across the board most of the Saints players are superior to ours, I am assuming that both clubs spend up to the salary cap limit. If that’s the case it’s a damming indictment of the management and coaching staff at Leeds. Obviously it’s still early on in the season so time to turn things around. Cas won’t be an easy game as it’s the cup final for them.

since cunningham saints coaching appointments have been faultless.
ours have been shambolic

Smith has very strong views on how the game should be played. Which is fine. But the definition of madness is continuing to do the same thing but expecting a different result. Playing soft up the middle and lacking real structure is just not seen from the best sides. We've played that way for a season and a bit and its not working and looks like only being a bit more successful against mid-table teams than last year, which is mainly down to us having some better quality players in the squad.

The way to learn from this defeat is to look at what Sts do better than us, and not just how they get away with things. They do have better players in some positions, but the way they play gives them much more chance of winning than us. Systematic, physical, looking to win collisions and field position. Stuff every successful side I can remember does well. I cannot remember a team trying to play high risk off the cuff rugby all the time succeeding for very long or in the biggest matches. RL is a simple possession and territory game for the most part. You cannot short-cut your way around the basics.

Okay the fact you accept that that the decisions are small and subjective leads me to one of two conclusions;
1. that Saints fans are equally capable at pointing at small decisions subjectively, and therefore on balance there is no bias because the reality is referees are always going to be somewhere in between
2. You don’t accept Saints fans are able to point at decisions they subjectively think are wrong, so accept your opinion is subjective in Saints indiscretion but objective on Leeds … which would be quite the position to take.
Since you admit you are in the first group, I can’t see how you can subsequently complain of a grand conspiracy. Your coach (and some fans) complain about a slow ruck, yet as a saints fan all I can see is Saints dominating tackles over and over, with very few Leeds players trying to support their own team in winning the ruck. Bentley is your best at this and always has been one of his strengths, but compare that to Mata’utia who basically turned several plays in to mauls at times to help the ball carrier build momentum.

As for 2023 disciplinary, between rounds 1 and 17, Saints were the most penalised team by the MRP by a factor of 2 to 3 times the next nearest worst offenders. If I recall correctly Saints had had 11 incidents deemed ban worth in that time frame with other teams (like Huddersfield) sat on 1 incident. There were a huge number of discrepancy, such as the RFL bringing in medical professionals into the Knowles Easter ban for the tackle on Cooper, a precedent that hadn’t been seen before and hasn’t been seen since. I can’t speak for what happened in Leeds appeals, but based on the bits I read about the Newman ban for gobbing off, the RFL are right in saying they were frivolous because Leeds didn’t provide any new evidence; your defence (at least publicly) was “nuh-uh” which isn’t the basis of an appeal. What Saints did with Knowles, and other appeals is evidence how the RFL didn’t follow their own process, which is why the ban couldn’t stand. The penny seems to have dropped for most clubs in this regard now.

As for the Lomax incident; presumably your as equally disappointed in Bentley for taking about 10 seconds to decide whether to milk a crusher tackle or not as he hovered between going to clutch his head and play the ball as half the Leeds team screamed at the ref?

I agree with Sgy Loiner in that Bentley would look a different player in a good pack. He is on yhe small side but always gives 100% and sets the example in terms of committment and effort.Hes not international class as hes not big enough at that level but hes not Leeds problem. We have players with size they just don't play to it.Sangare same weight and size as Walmsley!
Holroyd over a stone haevier than Matty Lees!
McDonnell half a stone heavier than Morgan Knowles.
The saints men run harder tackle harder and play longer minutes than the leeds players named. They may be more experienced but its their attitude that is the biggest difference. Bentley is never going to win us a big game but with the right players and attitude around him he will keep us in games with his defence or as in last night help keep the score down!

The other way of looking at it is the Leeds players are not good enough and never will be or the coaching and mindset preparation is not good enough. One or other has to change!

They wouldn’t mate. Saint’s fans wouldn’t want that either. Their centres and wingers are better. Not physically what Saints would be looking for. They have higher standards…..

I'm not a computer hacker so I don't know how to look at people's bank accounts to see how much they earn. So I can only guess. Generally people with more experience tend to be payed more. My point was [as you well know] we should have had a coach with top grade experience.