What I found disappointing & surprising given an Aussie coach & how many of our team play in the NRL was how slow we were in coming forward in defence compared to the Aussies.
They made many more metres before we made contact with them than vice versa & I think that they only got pinged once or at most twice for being off-side.

Are you saying you think Hill's good in general or that you think he was good yesterday? If the former, I'd agree. If it's the latter then I must be missing something.

Clearly they do need coaching, that's part of the problem. If Bennett had the players the way Eddie Jones has the England RU team then he may have had a chance of giving them some belief, but he doesn't. He also doesn't have 10-12 internationals a year to build a squad and he has half his team in Australia and half in the UK. To expect him to walk in and fix everything that's wrong with British RL with so little access to the players and so few games to do it is fantasy.
The squad hasn't gone anywhere since McNamara, the game plan employed against a massively under strength NZ team was completely boring and lacking in anything resembling skill or imagination. It was awful to watch and wouldn't have troubled even the weakest NRL side.
We created chances yesterday in the first half but didn't take them - again. The skills required to take passes under real pressure are simply not there. In SL you will always get another chance so our players simply are not good enough to convert at the highest level. Of course the Australians opened up once they got a couple of scores ahead but until then they played the same game we did. In fact their first try was purely down to two extremely poor refereeing decisions giving them firstly field position then a repeat set on our line. But they took the chance when Percival bolted out of the line (taking Hall with him) for no reason at all. Pressure caused the mistake.

I do believe with the skill levels in SL we won't beat Australia playing the same way they do, but Bennett has to be given time to work with these players. Again contrasting to the England RU team they effectively get a tough 6 nations comp to warm up for playing the southern hemisphere sides. France and Wales in particular are very tough opposition who have world class players. In league we have nothing like it. We need to play Australia and NZ more often and we need tours to get in that kind of shape - but we know this isn't going to happen.

We have to accept the now obvious fact that SL has fallen so far behind in skill levels that even this totally forgettable Australian side is beyond us.

For all of McNamara's criticisms, the one thing I felt he did really well was improve the team spirit. It no longer felt like a bunch of individuals or little groups determined by club friendship (the '08 WC Leeds-Saints divide for example) and I don't think they lacked belief in 2013 & 2014 that they could win (even though they came up just short).

Whilst not bad, I think that team togetherness wasn't as strong under Bennett and yesterday was a step back to 5/6 years ago when as soon as we went 2 scores down they looked to have accepted their fate.

With Hill you probably saw the effects of a full season in which he does a lot of minutes for Wire catch up on him a bit.

I was meaning going forward as a team, so in general. He is at least one of the players who matches his oppossite number at this level. Which is what I was saying on the earlier posts also.

I agree with a lot of what you have put. Regards Bennett though, he has been brought in to instil the belief and correct game plan to beat the big two. On both fronts he has fallen woefully short imo and i really don't see how he changes things for the WC next year as like you say he won't really be spending any decent time with the group before it.

for me, we were missing a real leader and game manager with a cool head and excellent kicking game. How we could do with former England scapegoat Mr Sinfield in this team which finally does have the capabilities of winning these games but looks rather rudderless with what we have at the moment in the halves. over the two games against the Aussies and Kiwis it has been the likes of Johnson, Thurston and Cronk that have been the biggest difference makers between the teams. We just don't have that quality in the halves right now and it shows big time.

I agree. Hadn't read all the earlier posts so apologies there.

Two minor things, Ireland are a far better RU side than either France or Wales.
Secondly, the role & massive influence of Cameron Smith appears to be overlooked.
Thurston to me now looks as if the years are finally catching up with him.
What a player he has been & his goalkicking yesterday was exemplary when it really mattered.
Cronk benefits massively from playing continually with Smith, two more future immortals but as Jonathan Davies said (one of the few proper insights he gave) when all three of these retire there will be ready made replacements taking over from them.
Something we can only dream about.

TBH England have been poor for the last 2 seasons. Versus NZ we were dour and uninspiring. We needed to raise our game after that and we didn’t. Some things that stood out for me:

1. We lacked intensity in defence. There was poor line speed and a lack of aggression. Occasionally we raised it but too often vs NZ and Australia we let their pack bully us – check out the metres made stats. The idea we have a good pack is a myth. On paper we might but not when it matters. The Burgesses are way out of form. Players struggled to read Hodgson, Bateman is too small, Hill was knackered, Taylor too ill disciplined, Farrell not good enough, Clark underused.

2. Our lack of dominance up front made it hard for the halfbacks and they lack the quality of Johnson/Cronk/Thurston anyway. Bennett wants a midfield general but there isn’t one. Williams is good running the ball but is dodgy defensively and apparently is “not vocal enough”. We need playmakers who can call the shots. Brown is too slow/past it. Gale isn’t good enough. Widdop is steady but need to be partnered with someone who can complement him. Answers on a postcard.

3. Our backs lack star quality. The wings are adequate but there’s nobody capable of doing anything special when it’s really needed e.g. Robinson/Offiah/Newlove/Davies etc. Lomax is steady but not going to worry the opposition. Percival is barely out of nappies. Watkins needs to get involved more and be more proactive and aggressive.

Where do we go from here? We need a combination of Wane’s grubby tactics in defence and Powell’s approach to attack. I don’t think we have the quality really and can’t see it coming through either unfortunately.

It's hard to disagree with Bullseye's analysis.

I disagree, it's not a dream it's a reality. We can easily replace all the mediocre players we have in the team now with similarly mediocre players. It's a never ending production line of mediocrity.

It kind of says it all when players that cannot get near an Australian shirts (namely the Morris', Heighington, Hodkinson and Willie Manu) were being touted as coups.

Well for once it can't be me - this is my first post on this thread