It wasn't overlooked at all. In fact, many on here attributed the majority of Leeds' success during Smith's tenure almost entirely to BM, coincidentally, some of those same people are now some of his biggest critics.

My Central point was that we have been blessed with some very good coaches, arguing about who is or was the best is very subjective and seems to me, futile.

I couldn't agree more.
However, subjectivity & futile argument (discussion/debate), call it what you will, is the lifeblood of this forum.

True and I wasn't meaning to denigrate anyone when I said it was futile. I enjoy a pointless argument as much as anyone else.

No you don't

This seems to come up every year and turns into a petty slanging match with 2 sets of stubborn opposition not willing to give any credit to the opposing argument.

Both will go down as Leeds coaching legends. I'd argue that Mac's job has been harder, having to manage more of a transition and with more competitive teams. The counter argument for that is that the core of team is so well established his input isn't as critical. Smith will always be remembered as the man who got us over the line for that first Grand Final. Had Joe Vagana not sat on Senior's leg in 2005 I expect Smith's resume would be even better.

Let's just enjoy the fact that our last 4 coaches have been very good in their own way and that we haven't had to suffer the poor results and awful seasons that Wigan, Bradford, Hull, Warrington or to a lesser extent Saints have had to in the last decade.

Well thank you.




I thought you said I was doing so well?

Of course. We all have opinions. But it had been stated that Smith "was without doubt" the best coach which IMO cannot be proven for the reasons I gave .



We are not privy to the exact circumstances of his selections and use of subs, therefore we are not so well qualified to make critical judgement on a proven Champions coach either.



My last sentence said "I prefer to get behind our current coach and players against all -comers" This means I get behind our current coach in the same way as I got behind Smith in his time at Headingley as they both had earned some respect and loyalty. It does not mean I am saying either coach is better than the other - it simply means I support my team against all-comers including any 5th column snipers.

Ok £50 it is - win win for me best case Leeds make the play offs worst case Leeds foundation get the brass.

Well I didn't spot any reference in this thread to BM being given any credit for assisting Smith to transform Leeds.

Success is down primarily to the players but is rarely achieved without a good coach and backroom staff. Coaches sometimes get too much credit for success but more often get too much blame for a failure to achieve success so when teams fall short it is primarily down to the players IMO.

Things evolve they are not cast in stone my views change as thing develop. How can you possibly hold the same view at the start of the season as you do half way through. I thought Saints had the best squad on paper but injuries to key players has impacted them in a way that could not be predicted. Even you were not predicting Leeds to finish 6th at this point last season and go out first round of the play offs.

On the Hull KR game at half time Leeds had conceded 4 trys and made numerous unforced errors. How would you describe the first half last week?

I am saying we should be patient with all sides the season is barely at the half way stage. Wigan are only 4 points behind Leeds not out of sight.

The crunch for Leeds will come after the split when this ageing side is playing the best sides week in week out.

I paid for a full half hour argument. And any way that wasn't an argument it was just contradiction.

I see.

So you don't want the discussion to go away from the original question by the first poster.

However, you're happy for the discussion to move in a different direction if it is in response to a question.

Do you have these rules written down anywhere or are they just in your head?

I was posting opinions about Tony Smith's abilities and merits as a coach. You're the one acting like a child. I'm not the first poster to label such accusations at you. By all means reply if you wish but I have no further desire to engage with you. I'll discuss any topics, whether they are strictly related to a thread or drift slightly, at my discretion, within the rules of the forum, with the grown ups, which doesn't include your good self. Welcome to the ignore function.

Sometimes I think we have forgotten just how hard it is to win a title. Our last three coaches have all done it multiple times so it looks like its easy.

Its also strange that all did arguably best with someone elses side. Smith took virtually Powells squad to the title in 04, Mclennan took Smiths squad to the title in 2008, and McDermott took Mclennans squad to the title in 2011.

McDermott is 5 years in now. So he has been here a bit longer than Smith, and two titles and a challenge cup puts him slightly ahead of Smith at Leeds. But its hard to argue Smith hasn't done well at Wire.

My personal opinion is that if McDermott gets Leeds over the line again he has put a real big marker down, not just because it will be his 3rd title, but because he will have won it with what it undoubtedly 'his' team, a squad he built, and Smith, as good a job as he has done at wire, has had plenty of time to do that and so far not got them there.