The other day I viewed some of my old recordings of the team when we were in our prime.
With Senior at his best and Webb before he got a bit petulant . Also Mc Guire before he lost his pace.
I thought at the time we were superb, I was wrong we weren't just superb we were absolutely dynamic .
To build another team similar to that I would think under the present structure ,would be very difficult .

The 2014 incarnation did not get the job done this time as far as the SL title is concerned but did finally get the job done in the CC seeing off eventual champions Saints, Wire and Cas which also has to be taken into consideration when evaluating this year. If that crazy last minute error had not have happened against the Dragons there is every chance we would have gone on to OT again looking at the way the play off series panned out after we were eliminated.It was a missed opportunity for sure, we could be all on here now still toasting a wonderful double, it really is fine line between success and failure.

a simple question -If we had picked up the routine 6 points we should have picked up against the Bulls,London (which i beleive we have if not fo CC) and Hull in the last few games and finished top 2 but failed to win the title, would people still be so downbeat?

It would be hard because the likes of Webb and possibly even Lauititi (who was a bit troubled but had not urinated on his dog in public) would not come over in the present market, and Dave Furner wouldn't have been here either.

Add to that the question of how long it must have been since a team won the GF with home-grown players at 6,7,9 and 13, let alone keep that axis together for 4 titles in 6 years.. It isn't just Leeds that will probably never produce a crop of players of that quality that close together in those key positions again. Even with all the right structures, the success of the academy production line in those few years was extraordinary. 10 of our 2004 GF 17 came through the academy. By the end of the 2009 season you could add Lee Smith, Carl Ablett, Ryan Hall, Nick Scruton and Luke Burgess to the list. That's an extraordinary number of winners medals straight from the academy. It's been great, but it's not replicable.

Probably not. Finishing 2nd, with a pot in the bank and a bit of late season form would make things look different. But if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle. The trouble with living by the "doing it when it matters" approach is that you have nothing to fall back on when you don't do it when it matters.

In any case, in evaluating this year, I don't think it was such a terrible year. It's my expectations an optimism for next year that's the concern for me. And I am usually (see, well, most of my posts) quite optimistic about this sort of thing.

Last year cannot be viewed as anything but a success. We won one of only 2 real trophies on offer. What was dissapointing was the second half of the season when the rot kicked in and the future looks less and less rosy as you realise the players a lot of them are on the dip. Don't think we will be right out of the reckoning but will certainly be battling for 4th place at best in my opinion.
Even the Wigan chairman has discounted the Leeds team alluding to the threats as wire and sts

Our teams since 2011 are replicable. Yes, you would struggle to repeat 2004 and 2005, but then again we have made not efforts to repeat it anyway.

Fair enough.

I just think Leeds have played the system for how it is these last few years and particularly this year when clearly targeting the CC. With just a little bit more concentration and desire we would have finished top and if next years system was in place this year, and we had to be in the top 4 or out of the play offs, then we wouldnt have been afforded the luxury of taking the foot off the gas. Of course we ultimately ended up with egg on our faces this time but you can't really blame the players for that mind set as they have done it from outside the 4 twice.

Coulda woulda shoulda.

Those using the excuse of 'tossing it off' or 'playing the current system' also need to take into account that other teams (certainly Wigan, Wire and Hudds) we're also 'playing the system' this year, hence Cas finishing the season so high.

With recent performances, I'd expect all three of those teams to be able to perform well consistently more often than Leeds.

One other worry is that the 'bully boy' tactics worked so well against us. Wigan set the blueprint on that front - even Leigh troubled us using the same tactics.

I probably wouldn't use Hudds as an example of a team playing the system.

Also Warrington I don't believe played the system this year I just think they honestly struggled early doors to life without Briers, Morley, Hodgson.

I'm not ignoring those losses. The Saints one, well bit of a tricky one to be overally critical on as we went with 12 men for 60 mins and they only just scraped past us. Wigan, we lost comfortably away to them, they lost comfortably away to us. I know we weren't good enough against Catalans but that's one playoff game it happens, it happened to the 2006 team, I thought the talk was about how we'd get on as a whole for a league season next year......I'm not ignoring losses, yet some are ignoring the wins we managed to pick up this year too.

We lost twice to a very weakened Saints side, Wigan beat us twice - you appear to have overlooked the magic weekend? The talk is can this side still cut - based on the second half of 2014 it is doubtful. I cannot see any tangible evidence that this side can still challenge the top sides in the league.

So you basing it on the 2nd half of the season.....yet want to include the losses to Saints and Wigan from the first half of the season? Which is it?

Not overlooking any loss, I've quite happily talked about the defeats we've suffered this year AS WELL as the wins we've had......it's the people who think we won't make top 4 next year that have only mentioned losses whilst ignoring the wins.

Why is that? Why are people ignoring the fact that we've also been capable of beating every team in 2014 barring Hudds (which we were a drop-goal against the post away from beating)? My view isn't overlooking/ignoring anything, it's actually basing it on the full season.....and I admit there is a good chunk of bad in there so I can understand why some think we'll be outside the top 4 next year......but perhaps some others should try practise what they preach and not ignore games (namely any game we didn't lose) when coming to their conclusions.

The point of mentioning the Magic game is that it was week 13 so half way and it was when things started to go down hill - Wigan's depleted team simply beat the crap and the confidence out of them. They were never the same team again after that.

The point about the second half of the season is that is the most up to date evidence we have of how the team is going. Since the Magic weekend they had wins against: Catalans (very lucky), Hull, Widnes, Hull KR and Salford hardly confidence boosting stuff. Catalans apart they didn't beat a top side since the Magic weekend.

The CC is an excuse in my opinion, the beat Saints late April so between May and August they played 1 game in the CC which was against a non SL side. So as a distraction it should not have been even a consideration for an elite professional player.

We still have the conundrum of why they played so badly when it really mattered against the Catalans? 2006 the team was sick of Smith and didn't want to play for him. Early 2007 was equally bad it was only after Smith announced his departure that things started to improve.

I am struggling to see why many on here think the top 4 is a mere formality - it is difficult to argue that the team is ageing and in decline other teams have strengthened and - in some cases - have better youth structures in place.

The crux of the matter for me is this year (and probably a couple of seasons before that) we've been more consistently average/poor than we have been consistently good. Yes they've definitely been playing the system to an extent, but our best is no longer miles ahead of the others, and naturally as our roster has aged, it's harder for them to put a string of top performances together.

Next year we've only brought in Cuthbo (who should be decent), and the squad is year older - so to me it's clear we're going backwards. If we'd blooded lots of youngsters who were ready to go full tilt next year, it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but in reality there's only really Sutcliffe who's been afforded anything like regular minutes.