Agreed Andy, whilst the English forwards were average in some aspects like ball retention, they did consistently get us up the park. If I had to find fault it would be that the back row carried very little threat with ball to in hand.

Oh and that was the worst Australian performance in living memory, if they play anything like that against England we will have the best chance of beating them for years...

Not with Tomkins at fullback. All they need to do is put up an average high kick and chase it. Likelihood is he will drop it. Gives a chance to even the averagest of sides.

Much like Australia's full-backs today then.

I was only commenting on the forwards. Sam Tompkins couldn't catch a dose in a brothel...

Since Sean Long is helping out Samoa, can we add 'treachery' to his long list of crimes?

To be fair to Sean Long, that's the most influence he's had on an international game at any time in his career.

I didn't think the Burgess brothers had anywhere near the impact on the go forward they do in the NRL. We never really used them close to the line in the way South Sydney do. Watkins worries me in defence he seems to come out of the line too often leaving huge gaps. I wouldn't be playing Tomkins at FB a kicker as good as Cronk will surely expose him even more than the Somoans did today. We need to improve our ball retention we will not be able give that much ball away against either the Kiwis or the Aussies

All on for next week beat the Aussies - they didn't look brilliant today - and they are out.

Hardacker for me is THE best defensive in the world for me, he reads the game exceptionally well and he should be at 1, especially against Australia.
Tomkins can easily slot in at 6, he played the majority of his career at 6 and will take on the line and let Widdop do the organising.

Against Australia

1. Hardacker
2. Charnley
3. Shenton
4. Watkins
5. Hall
6. Tomkins
7. Widdop
8. Hill
9. Clark
10. Graham
11. Whitehead
12. Farrell
13. O'Loughlin

14. Hodgson
15. T.Burgess
16. G.Burgess
17. Ratchford.

Clark, Hill, Graham, Whitehead, Farrell are all very fit guys who are more than capable of doing big stints.
Ratchford brings options as the only position he didn't play for Warrington last year was prop.

He had a decent game in the win in Sydney in 2006!

I'd go with this.

]

I wouldn't. Although a fan of Ratchford I don't think International RL is a place to carry a utility player on the bench. Whilst our back rows aren't great I'd rather just go with one of them than consider Ratchford could cover IF an injury happen.

The point about Ratchford is his ability to make an impact - if we get behind and we pack the bench with forwards we don't have any options? Our back row looks too small although if biscuits bones does play he will give it a bit more size

Cool. We're in an era when the full-back is generally the club's most potent attacking player.

Saying Hardaker is the [i"Best Defensive Full Back"[/i (+ [i"in the world"[/i - depending on location) is like saying [i"Pick Danny Wellbeck - the busiest striker in England".[/i

Hardaker is no Wellens though. He's solid at the back, has a good kick return and if he chimes into the line properly can cause havoc. We're also in an era when attacking fullbacks also have to be able to defend. Tomkins is OK with tackling and balls on the ground, but if we're being honest not pretty much useless when it comes to the high ball.

Hardaker isn't exactly a slouch in attack though is he? We lost by a try to Australia, Tomkins missed tackle on Jennings.
The Inglis disallowed try, if there hadn't been an obstruction in the build up, he would have been at fault for that too.

Defence wins games, you're a bright guy Mugwump...maybe not so in rugby but hey, no one's perfect.