"In the WC, Sinfield finally had a side around him"

This is the key part. His first 8 years for England 2000-2008 he wasn't really given the reigns. He sometimes got picked, sometimes not. Some in the halves, loose, 2nd row, hooker, bench. Once he got given the 6 shirt and more importantly the captaincy he started to show what he could do.

Even the Aussie press had him rated quite highly on a list best international performers over the last few years didn't they?

He might not have lead us past New Zealand and Australia (might've done the latter had James Graham not made himself unpickable for that game and had O'Loughlin been fit, both the main contenders for the captaincy now. Instead we got Tom Burgess and Mossop taking their places for the opener ) but only given the captains role the previous year was perhaps too short a turnaround. Remember in 2003 in his first year as Leeds captain we fell short but Rome wasn't built in a day....or year in these cases)

The biggest mistake regarding Sinfield and the 2013 WC was that we didn't make him captain straight after the 2008 WC.

I though Sinny may go around one last time. After falling to fit in whilst Farrell and Sculthorpe were around and being criminally wasted by Noble he'd finally settled and was leading the team and playing well, very well in many games.

Still the decision makes absolute sense for him and is good new for the club.

As for his replacement O'Loughlin is the obvious choice though I do like Damo's suggestion of Shenton, a player I have never rated that much but who has impressed me massively this year.

Here's a question though, if Shenton is to be picked, would it potentially be at Watkins' expense?

Haven't watched Leroy Cudjoe much this year, how's he going?

I thought Shenton was pretty ordinary at Saints, he just seems happier at Cas and his performances reflect that. He's played very well every time I've seen cas this year (and I do make an effort to watch them when I can as they're a very watchable team this year).

Would pick him above Cudjoe, don't follow the NRL so don't know how Reed has performed.

For me though Shenton is one of those players who are good club players but at International look average. Like a JJB or Ablett from Leeds. In football I've seen the likes of Gareth Barry, Michael Carrick and James Milner the same.......solid picks who perform well for their clubs but not really going to be more than that. Ones of those guys who when not picked people say he should be based on his form and as soon as he is picked people turn around and say he's not good enough for International play.

Watkins is a shoe in. Shenton has been playing left centre hasn't he? Certainly did in the final.

I have some friends who are Giants fans and they say Cudjoe has been poor this year.

I wouldn't over complicate selection on worrying about whether someone is international class. I'd pick the players whose form merit it and give them a chance, look at Ferres last year.

Prior to his Saints move, Shenton played very well against the Aussies and Kiwis in the Four Nations (2009?).

JJB has always looked much the same aat international level for me, he isn't a spectacular player, he's a workhorse. He's also had (IMO) some very good performances at test level. Milner and Barry racked up a lot of appearances for precisely that reason. You need some of those. Ablett has had very few chances from which to draw that conclusion.

I don't watch NRL either. I was underwhelmed by Jack Reed in his previous England performances, but I don't know how he's developed.

Whatever position you look at, England just doesn't have as much quality (or in some cases depth) as Australia. In 30+ years we've never had a 1-13 where hand on heart we could say they were comparable to Australia - at best we've had about half a team and the rest a bunch of hard workers, at worst we've had only 1 or 2 class players.

The sad thing is then picking scapegoats for the inability of a generally outmatched side to beat Australia.

Right now we're far better off for choices than when Tony Smith was in charge - a right wing combination of Calderwood and Lee Smith still gives me nightmares. But for all the debates across these boards, we're still a long way off matching Australia - we've no halfbacks to match them, and right now our backrow looks weaker than it has in years to me.

Absolutely dreadful international - Golden boot winner - what a joke- I can just see Russell Crowe ringing Leeds up - any chance we could swap Greg Inglis for Sir Kev please. No Australian club has ever tried to sign him because in all honesty he's not very good - not big - not fast-not brilliant passer-to be fair he can kick and has been a good SL player and captain.

You would imagine that if he was as non-descript as you think, he wouldn't have made such an impression on you that you would set up an account purely to post about him on the message board of a team you don't support.

Maybe.

Quote: mb010 "Absolutely dreadful international - Golden boot winner - what a joke- I can just see Russell Crowe ringing Leeds up - any chance we could swap Greg Inglis for Sir Kev please. No Australian club has ever tried to sign him because in all honesty he's not very good - not big - not fast-not brilliant passer-to be fair he can kick and has been a good SL player and captain.'" www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... over-88359 LOL.

Quote: mb010 "Absolutely dreadful international - Golden boot winner - what a joke- I can just see Russell Crowe ringing Leeds up - any chance we could swap Greg Inglis for Sir Kev please. No Australian club has ever tried to sign him because in all honesty he's not very good - not big - not fast-not brilliant passer-to be fair he can kick and has been a good SL player and captain.'" www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... over-88359 LOL.

I think he's right. Here's Russell Crowe's list of all the players he'd swap Greg Inglis for:

What a surprise 'an unnamed club' - figment of Sir Kevs management teams imagination - he'd of smashed it over there.....not

Lol.
Worst. Troll. Ever.

Waiting for Sinfield to retire !!!!

Seriously though do you think he's played well this season ?

England should be 1 Hardaker 6 Widdop 7 Tomkins.

Agree Sinfield can control a game but i think above would cause more damage.