Ellis was also a major international disappointment given the plaudits he received from Wests.

I agree but think that might be down to how Wests played him as opposed to England. There was a tribute video that Wests produced that showed him running some devastating angles that I never saw over here.

Gareth Ellis hardly looked interested wearing England colours.

Another young player from the Castleford area whose off field exploits have hindered his on field performance.

I thought that none of the 'reserve' forwards looked good enough. Burgess x 2, Graham, Hill and O'Loughlin were clearly at a different level from the others, although Ferres looked OK in the game v Oz. Westwood I think is seriously overrated just because he plays rough and gets bloodied - he's a far dumber footballer than his Aussie counterparts (on the pitch at least).

The others however - T Burgess, Farrell, Mossp, Ablett and co simply weren't good enough. T Burgess and Farrell are young enough to improve, and Mossop may kick on at the Eels, but I'd genuinely hope we have better options even for the end of next year.

The reserve hooker is also a problem. Roby is head and shoulders the best we have, but his inability to play 80 minutes really hurts England, as the subs just aren't close to his standard. Even if they were, we end up having to play a hooker on the bench (even if a utility like Burrow) instead of another big forward.

Roby could do worse than watch the way Smith plays. There are entire sets where he doesn't even hint at moving from dummy half, and lets the odd PTB be served by someone else - he's a genius at taking breathers.

Spot on.

Don't agree with that at all. Love him or hate him, and he is towards the end of his career, but Westwood if anything is massively under rated. He is a very good player, and one England have benefited from.




Where does it come from that Roby can't play 80 minutes. Reminds me of those so called experts on here when Buderus arrived, telling us he doesn't play much game time because he isn't up to it, only for it to be shown two years further down the line that he was well capable of it, and infact paramount he did it.

Just because England chose not to utilize Roby for 80 minutes, doesn't mean there is an inability to play 80 minutes.