I agree Bailey is a good defender around the ruck and he has shown a much improved go forward under Macca's coaching this year. However we are talking about the big Aussie boys here and we have plenty of good tacklers but few good metre eaters. Baileys ability(?) to niggle is a questionable advantage. If he were to try it on against the Kangaroos then he would be certain to regret it.

Against Wales it was obvious that we only started to look like an attacking threat when the front row produced better go forward in the 2nd half.

It is no good just trying to contain Oz. To have any chance we have to score points and our backs will not get the space unless the pack put us on the front foot. Hence Carvel rather than Bailey.

I agree, as I've said I would go for Carvell as a swap for Wilkin (notwithstanding Carvell's apparent earlier Welsh-ness). I just thought you were off the mark in suggesting Bailey didn't offer anything. I wouldn't swap Carvell for Bailey at Leeds that's for sure. But he is the right man for the gig we need on the bench for England IMO.

Yup Bailey has nothing to offer Your agenda is carrying on regardless.

A 4th prop is needed to be brought in no question. Carvell has got the nod. From his point of view he needs to make the most of his opportunity or we know who will get the shirt next week. Best of luck to him. It's England, I will support the team chosen.

Rugby acumen who show that the 2 props in question are stylistically different and have different games. With the cement placed props (Morley, JP, FGB) all more than capable of big game time it's down to what can the 4th prop offer and in what manner? The coach has possibly gone for a bit more bluster down the middle. Doesn't mean I would have gone down that route. But Carvell has to make a dent and make the metres or he won't have done his job!

Carvell can on both sides of the fence be a Sloppy Joe. Maybe he reminds you of a souped up Cross? Ah, memories.

Getting back to the title of this thread.....after today's blunders I have to agree

WOW, Utter crap. Never seen a HB Combo quite as bad.

You said that on the VT. You were talking there as well.

Sinfield played at least as well as the 'great' Lockyer at SO. If he played as well as that always I will be a permanent convert.

Chase was the disappointment with his costly brain farts.

Chase did his best but it just wasnt good enough. Will be interesting to see Steve Macs reaction and to see if he has the balls to make any necessary changes.

I agree that Chase is terrible but also Sinfield and Peacock. I would gladly see Bailey in instead of Peacock and anyone instead of Sinfield who didnt put in a telling kick all game and on at least 3 occasions was looking backwards before the play had been completed and missed out on telling offloads one of which was on the 5th tackle.

what an absolute ar$ehole!

Sinifield was decent today, however I cringed because on more than one occasion he looked for a runner and there wasnt one. Without having runners there's no point having sinifield as a 6 because hes not a "maverick"

I thought Carvell was in the squad today. There is only room for one of JJB or wilkin (JJB based on performance) on the bench for me. Especially since the lack of a 4th prop cost us today with the loss of the FGB.

Chase tried to be flashy and it didnt work. His two brainfarts were of a Francis Meli-esque propotion and his defence was terrible. Widdop to start next week, with carvell taking that bench spot and Wilkin giving way to TMFMISL.

However McNamara wont drop Chase because then there was no point adding a kiwi in the first place. It looks bad on him

Also whats the big deal about this Heington seen him crunched by welshmen in attack and bulldozed for an aussie try today. Surely he's no better than what we already had?

Chase is Absolute Gabbage and should be dropped.

3 Tries came from his Mistakes today.

1st Rubbish attempted kick to touch from the 20
2nd Turnstyle Defense on the 10
3rd The Joke of a Pass on their 10

McGuire in Chase out