I agree we disagree.

I wouldn't say Cross was ever an option as he never played. Biff had potential but to be honest, I dont consider prop a position we are lacking numbers in so dont buy any of that.

If you were to check my posts (and I appreciate you arent going to so Ill re-cap) you would see that my view is that the players should always take a proportion of the blame as at the end of the day they are the ones on the pitch. However, the modern way is that the coach carries most of the can (you may consider this unfair, and I may agree but the fact is, its just how it works). So I dont blame Brain 100% but he gets 75% of it for me.

Also, what is the alternative? Release/sack half the players or get rid of the coach?

Your comment about Maguire is obviously unprovable. But look at Wigans squad. Is Joel Tomkins a world class centre? No. Is Charnley a better winger than Hall or BJB? No. Is Leuleui at hooker better than Buderus? No. Our squad is above average on paper, its just hasn't translated onto the pitch. Why?

Sal we'd be much more competitive with a better coach especially one who could sort our discipline out add structures with and with-out the ball and pick players in their best positions.

wigan have two world class players. ratboy and Leuleui. the rest are decent but nothing special. the coach has moulded them into a unit where everyone knows there place and there job.
i sit in the carnegie and i see our structure, or lack of it, most weeks.
we are no better now than at the start of the season. we need a top coach, a ruthless coach who will listen to players but he will decide what to do and if they dont like it tough.

This group of players have had discipline problems under Tony Smith, Brian McClennan and McDermott - why do you think it is the coaches problem? What can he do drop all those players with a history of giving penalties away? JJB, Webb, Bailey, McGuire, Peacock, Sinfield - are you seriously suggesting that dropping these players is an option?

There is a player power issue at Leeds - ask Brian Noble - until this is addressed it doesn't matter who coaches them things will not improve. GH hangs on to players he should release why!! The question is "who runs the team" it isn't McDermott that is for sure.

Wigan have 6/7 of the best players in the league - Tomkins, Leuleui, Finch - better than any of our half backs, Carmont is as good a centre as there is in the league, Richards better than either of our wingers, Hoffman is the best back row forward in SL add to that Tomkins Snr/Farrell/Tuscon/Hansen - this isn't a coaching issue this is a squad strength/quality issue.

Believe all you want Leeds have a squad as good as Wigan - it simply isn't the case.

Out of all 3 of the above coaches this is the worse reign for indiscipline and lack of composure.
Under TS we played with much better structures with and without the ball ,under Bluey we had a much meaner defensive structure and were still able to create enough quality with ball in hand to win the "big games CC aside".
WTF does Noble know about Leeds other than his dislike for us and the fact no fecker would want him coaching us?
More player conspiracy seriously Sal is that really what you believe?
What would help is selecting players in tehir best positions ,whilst at the same time not dropping players whoever they are when in good form.
I 'd also add that under Mcdermott this team has "given up" more times than i can remember during the last decade.

Exactly. Which is why you'll not see me criticising the way Super league coaches and CEOs run their teams and business'

Whilst your sentiment is noble your not in the real world.

We, the fans, to a large degree pay the money that keeps this club afloat (sponsors also play a part). This constant outlay of money actually affords us very little in terms of having any control over how the club is run. What it does however entitle us to do is to have our say.

You may not agree with what is posted on here but just because its not GH making the comments himself does not mean people are any less entitled to make them.

Disagree with peoples views, of course. But dont disagree with them having a view.

You're wierd. Why such reverence ?

Can we criticise political decisions or silly religious dogma...or do we need to be politicians and priests/vicars/rabbis to do so ?

If you read Peacock's comments this week in the YEP, it would appear that's the approach McDermott is trying to take.

When he does take the "if you don't like it, tough" approach however, he gets lambasted for leaving these players out - Burgess, Cross, McShane all spring to mind from this season.

Seems he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If Leeds do get lucky on Saturday I hope he takes the opportunity to stick the twos up at his critics, having achieved something that was beyond both his supposedly superior predecessors with their better squads.

Isn't this the job of the coach though? He makes the decisions and he lives or dies by them.

So far, in most fans opinions he decisions have not been good enough.

And once the players cross the white line, it's up to them to execute what the coach has been telling them.

I'm pretty sure the gameplan hasn't been to throw passes to the touch judges, have zero defensive line speed and kick straight down the throat of the opposition wingers and full back.

I think our current position is the fault of all three parties. Many of the players are not playing as well as they have in previous years (some down to poor form, others down to age / fatigue).

The coach is not the strongest, and doesn't seem as switched on as our two previous coaches. His ability is not necessarily his fault though. he's just the guy in the hot seat

but I think that all of the above is in some way trumped by the role Hetherington has played. Players is his responsibility, both signing, and retaining. If players are not good enough then that's down to him signing them, or not signing better players. If a player is out of form there's not a lot he can do about that. But he also has the choice of who to work with the players.

My opinion is that in a salary capped sport you have only a few ways to get an advantage. One of the ways to do that is to get the best coach that you can to do the job. Even if we had wigan's squad we'd likely still be less successful than them because we have a poorer coach. the other main way is that you have a tightnit group of players that want to play well for each other. ironically these two main methods of getting the most out of the salary cap tend to be at odds with each other (player power etc), so we are indeed lucky to have had both concurrently for a long time prior to our recent slump

So if there passing has been so bad, their tackling non existent etc ... why has their not been a marked improvement over the season. If everyone in the stands can see the glaring holes why are they not battering the tackle bags all week?

Rugby, like most sports is a very simple game at heart yet our squad has gone from hero to zero in less than two years. Its not all Brains fault, Ive said this a zillion times, Bluey had a bad year and the players also need to step up. But the buck always, always, always stops with the coach.

These players have spent 20 years at amateur and professional level learning how to pass, catch and tackle.

They know the fundamentals, but for some reason they're not doing them out on the pitch under pressure. Even if you flog them in training, they're not going to miraculously improve at this stage in their careers.