Hardaker was a 16 year old who was grateful to sign for any pro club and what else is he likely to say?

My point was about a talented youngster looking to the future - is he going to want to play for team with the 8/10 players that are struggling to compete now in 3/4 years time - no way.

Unless you see a significant break up of the core this team with stagnate and go backwards. Too many players are "Owed" a place to be a truly competitive side long term.

What it says is the club isn't ruthless enough to despose of players who are not upto scratch - so as a young player are you going to get a spot before Burrow - no chance. It might be great to play in a team with Sinfield and McGuire in 3/4 years time - provided you don't have ambitions to win anything!!

Ok, I agree with the argument you are making now. It wasn't just a general statement then.

I still don't agree with Andy's though that Leeds isn't any more attractive a proposition for players than other clubs.

IMO I can see us signing a second rower and a prop from Aus if we cant get a good one from UK -

Brent Webb - Ben Jones Bishop
Keith Senior - Kallum Watkins
Kylie Leuluai - Ben Cross whilst Brad Singleton matures
Jamie Peacock - Stay for another year to help mature Brad Singleton - Luke Ambler to replace him
Ali Lauitiiti - Chris Clarkson
Ryan Bailey - Stay
Ian Kirke - Luke Ambler
Luke Burgess - Brad Singleton for now
Callum Casey - ?

if that went like that we would be with:

1. Ben Jones-Bishop
2. Zak Hardaker
3. Lee Smith
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Danny Mcguire
7. Rob Burrow
8. Ben Cross
9. Danny Buderus
10. Jamie Peacock
11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan
12. Carl Ablett
13. Kevin Sinfield
14. Brett Delaney
15. Luke Ambler
16. Ryan Bailey
17. Weller Hauraki
18. Chris Clarkson
19. ?
20. ?
21. Paul McShane
22. Brad Singleton
23. Jay Pitts
24. Jared Stewart
25. Kyle Amor

Sal if we are looking at signing young players now for next season and beyond it's very unlikely they'll look at our squad and think that Sinfield and Mcguire will still be here 3/4 more years and we won't win jack so i'll go eleswhere.
This squad will go through changes not least this year and there's still pleny of youth ,potential and talent within it to be a very good prospect for any young player or otherwise to want to join.
It's also more likely they'll get plenty of chances to impress and game-time not least because of the evolution the squad will go through whereas the others you point out will have much more established 17/20 man squads.

Well we may as well give up then the way people are talking about this. If we are no longer able to compete with signings with the likes of Castleford then I would be extremely worried. I don't get how you can use the 'why would they sign with us when they could sign or Wigan' argument either, we need to try and sign them at any cost if we are to continue to be successful. Are people suggesting we should just avoid signing bigger players in the off chance another club wants to sign them aswell, in which case we should give up. We have a large chunk of cap space about to be made available to should be aiming to sign the best players available to us at a realistic cost. Like it or not we are on of the biggest clubs in this league, and players will want to play for us in-front of the bigger crowds etc. Lets aim for the top, and not just accept defeat without trying eh?

Wigan wont be doing any dealing for players until they have their new coach imo.

Which one then?

Yeah that is obvious, its just whether Michael Maguire wants him in squad over a player he admires, for instance, Liam Farrell?

Well I can't tell you without phoning round the players agents can I, however I was more hoping Gary is doing this rather than finding some NRL reject who wants to come over to finish his career.

I meant the two parts of your post that I highlighted


[iwe need to try and sign them at any cost[/i


[isign the best players available to us at a realistic cost[/i

Apologies, that was a mistake on my part, I was trying to get the point across that we should be paying top dollar to secure the best available british talent, but only to a certain extent. Not so much that it is ridiculous but if it means we have to pay more than others to secure them then so be it.

Yes, really.

Well done on naming Leeds quota players. Now name their English players. Now name English players playing at other clubs who have come through the ranks or played at Leeds.

Interesting this is a point that would throw up interesting reading I think.

This was always a very very valid argument Gareth and one that could be thrown up against any oppossition supporters going. We know for a fact that no other club in super league has produced as many super league players as Leeds that were playing in the academy's between 1999 and 2003, possibly earlier and longer than that.

But I wonder how many Leeds have produced since 2005 in comparison? I would bet that the players produced into superleague players between 1999 to end of 2004 (6 seasons) is more than double what we have done for the next 6 seasons (2005 to 2010).

I'm talking playing for any club here not just Leeds. Bet that is an interesting comparison.

To be honest I dont even have a problem with signing some players from the NRL but agree I dont want to see someone here just for the expreience and pension top up.

Agree dont see any reson why a young british player would not want to come to leeds. Yes there are other big clubs also vieing for the same signiture but doesnt mean we cannot compete.