I would suggest Tony Smith who allowed Sinfield to have too much influence in the pivotal roles within the side - its incredible how much Sinfield gets involved as first receiver.

You could in fact argue Burrow hasn't improved because he hasn't had to.

Ironically it was the players departing from the coaches structure and gameplan that turned a defeat into a draw against Bradford. Agreed there needed to be a little more composure in that final set to give the chance to win it with a drop, but I think the players take a great deal of credit for rescuing that game.

Weren't the players responsible for getting themselves into a postion from where they had to rescue the game?

Or you could think back to the previous 10 when McGuire's speed of thought and perfect execution put Lee Smith over to level it.

All half backs get criticised for some part of their game but there is only room in the team for maybe 1 -2 guys who call the shots. Any more and it's chaos. At the moment it's our 13 that calls the shots and after that whoever is at dummy half. The fact is we haven't had chance to see - long term - how our team would cope without Sinfield, because the guys hasn't had a long layoff in his career. I would argue that it would be perfectly possible for McGuire or even Burrow to change the way they play and become the "organiser" everyone expects them to be right now. The other fact that isobvious by the teams results over the last 6 years, is that the way our 6, 7 and 13 combine gives us a far superior triangle to any other team, and that's the important thing.

We have a bunch of players who can react in the right way under pressure - they don't all do it every game - but we have the guys who can (and have) delivered again and again. I'd rather have a guy that get's labelled a scoot merchant only (even by his own fans), who turns up at playoff time and kicks brilliantly, tackles everything above the grass and makes key "scoots" just when needed. Combine that with a 6 who has a habit of scoring when needed (because he's one of the best support playersn I've eevr seen) and does all the little things right and I'm happy for now.

And there lies the problem.

You have quite rightly said the above based on a number of years of that happening.

The problem now is, that the scoot is found out and now does not work. And the tackling is not the same we had a couple of years back and before. Not that it is in anyway bad, but the Burrow you are on about is not the same as the Burrow you see today, and certainly won't be the same as the Burrow we will see in future.

I used to be a bit of an Adonis. I doubt I will get back there.

Can't disagree with any of that DHM.

Completely disagree - Buderus looks a pale shadow of the player he was - Diskin's introduction changed the game completely

I'll put it down to the Sun in your eyes. Especially considering your comments on Kylie's first stint also.

Don't we get these comments every year though? I think there has been at least one major criticism of Burrow for as long as I can remember him being in the team. Is the form of Burrow the reason for the team's poor results early on or a consequence of a team playing poorly? It's hard to single out a player - especially a half back - when the team as a whole makes fundamental errors like dropping the ball, missing tackles and not numbering up right on our own line. Must be enormously difficult for a half back to make a team improve when they keep giving the ball away and making bad defensive choices.

Of course he can't go on forever, nobody can, but he's criticised every year.

I'm not so sure that's true. I have seen very very little critism of Rob before this year. I critisized him for the first 3 quarters of last year and rightly so, but he had a good last quarter of the season. The year before he had a good second half of the season, after an indifferent first half, but nobody was critisizing.

It is really only this season that people are finally starting to get the message.

Everything you put about singling out is correct. Infact, as I said earlier I think he had a good game yesterday when the team was on song, which backs up your point. But it doesn't answer the issue of going foward after this season, and if Sinfield was not around.

Well, we started leaking tries when Diskin was on if that's what you mean?

Buderus (and the team as a whole) was hardly struggling after 60 mins, I just think it was a wasted interchange bringing him off for the sake of it.

This is why we've made history by winning 3 grand finals on the trot, 4 titles in 6 years, 5 grand finals in 6 years.

Our key pivotal players come up with the goods when it matters. Again and again. Look at mcguires inch perfect short kicks in last years grand final, see burrows kick in the first minute? held up in the goal area! sinfields perfect kicks in 08 combined with mcguires try scoring instinct.

No other team has these key players that consistently come up with the key plays when it counts.

Wigan are riding high, but do they have the players that can do this in a tight game when the pressure is on? We'll find out in october.

It's actually very funny. Because few opposition fans actually seem to rate these players, despite numerous grand final winning rings (more to come?). Mcguires just a support player (thats so 2004), mcguire and burrow couldn't organise a p*ss up in a bewery, sinfield is too slow blah blah blah.

We are laughing all the way to the trophy cabinet.

The current leeds team is at the stage where, if theres any chinks people will start to say that they've had their day, they're past it, they've had their success. 6 years ago it was team with potential, now when we play poorly you'll get more and more murmerings about certain players being past it.

Reality is, this team still has some mileage in it yet.

Every year the Leeds fans have to have a go at a player......a scapegoat if you like. I can remember right back to when Tony Kemp played for us, and he was a scapegoat.

The whole team were poor for the first rounds in SL, yet one player is again made into a scapegoat, then when he plays well in a game, its put down to a 'one off.'
Disa is again talking rubbish.

I agree this year buderus, kirkie and rob are getting plenty of stick.