Right now looking at the long term picture has to be Watkins over Gibson.

IMO Gibson no longer has the pace and has never had the size. At least Watkins looks like he's the potential to be a muscular build and already has some pace and good footwork,just his defensive reads are a little suspect at the top level at this stage of his career which i'm sure will get better in time and with more coaching.

Players like Brad Godden who I think was awesome for us wasn't the biggest or fastest,a bit like Gibson but he had a great pair of hands and could read the game and make space for his winger and put him away.

From what I've seen of Gibson he doesn't yet have that and i'm not sure he ever will?

Smith although largely untried at centre because of injuries this season,isnt the biggest lad but has pace but sadly looks like we're about to lose him.

If we were a middle of the road team happy not to be in contention for winning things and building for the future then I'd say Watkins over Gibson every time.

However as we are one of the top teams wanting to be competing for trophies on a regular basis then short term I feel we'll continue to fall short in the big games and Cup semis/finals etc with either Watkins or Gibson.

With Senior probably in his last or next to last year I dont think we can go next year with a starting centre pair of Watkins and Gibson and expect to be challenging on all fronts on a regular basis (assuming of course Keith retires at end of this season,which form wise I hope he doesn't)

Assuming there is no one out there to get this season with the right quality,I feel recruiting a top centre should be our number 1 priority for next season.Even if Keith goes one more year,with injuries etc there should still be oppertunities for Gibson and Watkins to provice cover. (on this point has it been announced yet that Gleeson has gone to Wigan? I know it was supposed to be in time for the weekend but wasn't officially announced? Could it be another Ali/Ellis Situation? Right upto the day of us announcing both signings it was widely accepted that Ali was going to Saints and Ellis to Bradford....if theres no other quality centres available and nothing else lines up for 2010 I'd take Gleeson like a shot now...** just seen it now confirmed to Wigan**)

If we still had Toopi and Senior now, I'd consider sending Watkins out on a season loan to another SL team to gain hands on experience a bit like we did with Burgess.We are now reaping the benefif I think of him getting SL experience elsewhere at a 'lower' club before coming back to us.

Right now I feel Watkins has the potential to make the grade at a top club in the next 2-3 seasons.It might be unfair and just my opinion,so don't shout me down but I don't believe Gibson has the same amount of potential.

Once you lose your speed because of injuries it rarely ever comes back.

If he's no speed then he either needs to be more solidly built so he can take the crash ball and attract opposition winger/defenders into the tackle so he can release his winger/inside runner or has to have the hands and guile (SP) to be able to put people through gaps.

In crap weather like last years GF when Saints cannot use their fast passing,dummy runners all over the place attacking game we can make do with the likes of Ablett in the centres.

When the conditions suit,like yesterday,you need more creative and/or faster centres than we had in Gibson.

Best of luck with all that. You get my vote.

Agreed, Saw the line and took it selfishly himself despite his winger being open on the outside...

Why don't you add a Poll?...

Not according to Verity.

I still think IMO that with McShane and Kaye (as then) on the books money would have been better spent else where on the squad.

Back on topic, kind of:

All this Gibson/Watkins and the whole right side debate, leaves me thinking we should make retaining Senior a high priority. He's the solid old boy on the left. And he's in good form for his age. He's had to develop a much more upper body strength style to his game, seeing as the old legs won't motor like they used to. And just look at the way he swatted Gidley off on Sunday (led to the Webb try), shows he can still have a huge impact. I know he can be hot one week, and look his age another, but seeing as the right side is still up in the air, I'd do what it takes to keep the quality and continuity of the left in place. The fact that Senior was strutting his stuff in the World Cup shows what a void we have in the homegrown centre position. I'd keep him for another year, we haven't signed a right sided centre so I don't think we'll be in a rush to get a left sided one. When Toopi left I felt we needed to sign a specialised right centre, and I still do. Watkins and Gibson have been relied on, with 'our strength and depth in youth'. Watkins is one for the future, I didn't see him breaking in this year, and he still has a lot to learn, which is expected. As for Gibson, I just dunno. He's seems a solid, stronger than he looks, rugby player. But I haven't seen much, at SL level, which gives away that he's going to be a quality centre. I know he's had his injuries, and fair play to the lad coming back and breaking in way back into the team time after time. His desire can't be questioned. But he's missing that ability to send his winger away, that quality touch that is needed. More often he will hold on to the ball and drive his way in (and makes good metres) and he can tackle well. So he's got the skills required to be a rugby player, but I'm not sure if he has the right skill set to be a centre (for the Champions). Watkins on the other hand has the eye for that special pass, but he is working on his core skills. So after looking at that, Seniors grit and experience seems very worth while keeping.

I'd agree with most of that BB. I think Gibson is getting sharper and stronger each week and won't make a rush judgment on him for a few more games yet. Clearly Bluey rates him ahead of Watkins and Ablett for that shirt. I think Gibson is being scape-goated for Sunday and his performance was much better than most of the fek, sorry, posters on here have stated.

As for Senior, he's expressed a desire to play on and despite his age he is still probably the best British centre knocking about so why not. As you say, it says a lot about the lack of quality in the British game that he's still top of the tree but that is neither his problem or ours.

Also, any reduction in pace (and he looked sharp pulling away from gardener and Roby after he'd swatted away Gidley) isn't a problem. Our game plan never puts our centres in space and relies them to run around or through their opponent anyway, but that is a whole other discussion.

I agree with you on the centre position. I too thought Gibson had a better game than many are saying, and seems to be a scapegoat.

It might be he is not the answer in the long term, but it is only fair he is given the rest of this season to have a crack at it. He deserves it on the promise he showed before his injury. You dont lose talent.

Where I dissagree with you is on the need to strengthen. And without opening old arguments, my view is definately someobody required in the forwards.

I'm happy to be proven wrong - But if I remember rightly (and my memory is on it's way out) in the first half on Sunday, Gibson showed great handling/quick hands on a couple of occasions to give Donald the ball in space. The only reason he didn't score was due to the Saints awesome defence.

Also, I read someone knocking Gibson for not giving the ball to Donald in the second half and going for the line himself - Was this the time he was bundled into touch by Meli & A N Other? If so, Donald had even less room to make it to the line, so Gibson made the correct call - Now if Donald had called 'switch' and cut inside that might have been different.

He looks to be a tough lad - with a decent head on him. If Smith does go, it'll be interesting to see people's thoughts on Gibson come the end of the season, after a decent run of games

I agree with you agreeing with me. I also agree strengthening would be nice but don't think there's a desperate need.

Personaly I think Gibson looks to have the makings albeit Sunday wasn't his finest hour. Watkins shows glimpses of high potential but seems to be a bit stuck in a 'trying too hard to make every play a gamebreaker' mode. Something he will be coached through and is likely to come out the other side as a better player from. Gibson and Watkins could form a really good long term pairing for Leeds I really hope they do.

Still think we are a world class player light, with the most pressing need being in the forwards.

As for Sunday (and the season so far) we simply didn't play very well and Saints did. Time to move on.

I suspect the lack of any real pre season (for a large part of the squad) and a stated ambition to build up through the season to play consistently well in the later stages through to the grand final accounts for the current 'crisis'

as long as RH keeps playing - I;m happy - think both Watkins & Gibson need more game time before people start slagging off

I'd agree with that. Gibson's not the reason we lost. The accusation of that is laughable. It's just easy to point to the right hand side and say, 'look there's the problem'. But having said that, it is the position we are least certain in. We can bring the Donald argument back in here. If we put his form (or lack of it) to one side and just look at what quality ball he has received, it just hasn't happened. The only one I can really recall (which put him away) was in the Celtics game (with the Watkins dream pass). No doubt, if he'd have been given more ball in those positions he would have a higher try tally than 2.

Gibson isn't the reason we lost at all on Sunday, but I'm with tvoc on this one, based on all the games I've seen him in, including pre injuries, I couldn't see Gibson hitting the standards at centre. I just don't think he has any of the tools going forward that would worry his opposite number.
Having said that, alot of his better performances from us have come in the left centre (Hull KR away) and so maybe he doesn't enjoy playing on the right.
Tony Smith often commented that he saw Gibson as a future loose forward, and I think that this is much more likely to become his natural position, where it is less of a 1 on 1 physical battle, and he can use his rugby brain to pick holes.
Therefore I'm not writing him off because I think he's a talented young player, but he certainly isn't the answer at right centre for us.
IMO