St Helens a god awful place ?

Oh, come on. Saints had far better teams when we kept beating them - very comforting opinion if you're a Leeds fan. Historical comparisons are completely bogus anyway. Sport is ever changing and you can't really compare sides more than a decade apart. They were both great - leave it at that. What I do find comical is why people are so obsessed with the best side in Super League history. Rugby League had a long and proud history before 1996 and the Wigan sides of the late 80's and 90's truly stand alone.

Comparing eras is always very difficult. The sports science in modern RL means that I think most teams from over 10 years ago couldn’t live with the intensity the game has now been played with. Whilst other eras have other attributes which define them, this Saints team embodies “intensity”, and is effectively era defining (for better or worse). Teams in the early 2000s may be considered more skilful, but had to do far less to strip defenders, and create opportunities. I’m very excited to get Dodd back into the team for next year, our average points score before good Friday was 12 points higher than after Dodd was injured.

It’s definitely true that consistently losing our best to Aus, as well as not even being in the conversation for any of the top NRL players coming over defines where we are as a competition, but that shouldn’t take away from Saints doing 4 in a row, or Leeds doing 3 in a row before us.

Maybe it's time the sport did away with the salary cap. It does seem with that we've sacrificed the absolute star quality of the likes of Lyon & Lauititi for a system that props up clubs who still don't compete at the top end of the comp.

These sorts of comparisons are a bit pointless. The record books will show Sts having won most titles in a row. Hopefully that run ends this year, but you can only beat what's in front of you and its not Sts fault that the rest of SL has fallen so far behind. We all play to the same cap, so it all comes back to recruitment and coaching at the likes of Leeds and Wigan simply not being good enough.

It looks as though we have finally got the coaching right but even when everyone in our squad is fit its clearly inferior to Sts in too many positions and Smith has had to make do and mend since he arrived. We've got a number of our poorer senior players leaving (Sutcliffe, Dwyer, Thompson, Briscoe) and likely a few more new faces than so far announced. Whether that's enough is debateable - while we had several out St Helens with Dodd and Walmsley would be stronger as well.

I suppose the counter argument being Saints and Leeds didn’t have to sell their ground to for their success (unlike a certain other team before the SL era that shall remain nameless )

I certainly hope that in the IMG era sees a big push increase in the cap, though I certainly fear that all will happen is the. Same quality players see their market value inflated. As Warrington have shown with the marquee rule it’s not just an issue of money. Forcing more clubs to spend what Saint/Leeds/Wigan do on their academy would be a good start …

I'd say the cap needs a one-off increase to scrape back the years when it went backwards in real terms through staying flat. That would just mean that average players' salaries are back where they were a decade ago compared to other jobs.

But as you say, lifting the cap with no controls would just mean more money for existing players, for zero net benefit. I don't mind the marquee rule, but they may need to look at other exemptions, particularly those aimed at rewarding developing your own players.

Warrington is a bad example as buying your way to success has never worked. If you look at Leeds, the fact that our squad is apparently at/near the cap like Sts is ridiculous when you compare player for player, as a combined team would be hugely dominated by Sts. It just shows that if you don't manage it well you can end up in a real mess.

Just have an exemption for home grown talent.

So home grown players dont count on the salary cap. SIMPLE

You'd need limits on homegrown exemptions to stop clubs stockpiling players, and you'd have to allow for the fact that some clubs have much smaller natural catchments than others. We sign plenty of youngsters from other clubs' catchments as juniors, as do other clubs. I'm not sure its fair to count a kid from Cas as a Leeds product for cap purposes.

There's no point in increasing the cap if the clubs haven't got the money to spend anyway.

Who are we definitely losing next season?
Sutcliffe to Hull FC I know,
Tetevano?
Are we likely to keep hold of Zak / Bentley?

No easy answers are there? My hope that a significant increase or abolishment of the cap would A) Make the sport more appealing to young players who are now being lost to the sport B) Help keep the best English players in England C) Attract a bit more sparkle from the NRL. I appreciate there are down sides to all this but the cap as it is just strangling the potential for any growth in the sport. It's brought about a fairer competition, but you only have to read the posts of many on here to get a view on what it has done for the game as a product.

Well done Saints. Terrific team and the benchmark. Proud of the boys, did us proud. Sezer missing was definitely felt especially close to the saints line, same with Newman and Fusi. Saints pack was just too big for ours plus lomax was class. Thought Austin played well and Zak.

Something good to build on though for us, we’re back contesting the big one. Be good to see where Smith can take us with a full pre season and further additions

The salary cap has levelled the sport down, restricted wages in a way that possibly is illegal, and has meant we have kept clubs who bring very little to the table at levels of player expenditure that they cannot meet.

The idea was to level out the competition upwards by sharing out the better players, well it hasn’t worked and needs a rethink. Perhaps a better way to stop clubs going bankrupt would be to fix the cap at a % of turnover which should incentivise the clubs to increase turnover. There should of course be other rules around developing players etc. but that seems a better direction to go in.

Oh and 5 year Franchising should be back on the table, it’s the only way we can possibly grow the game.

It will be interesting to see what Rohan Smith can do with a full pre season.
We are just too physical (even without Walmsley). Our ball movement was crisp and runs were strong. We have missed Dodd in our attack. With him on the pitch I think we win last nights game by more points. But Leeds have injuries too to be fair.
I have reservations over a few Leeds players. Players like Smith, Leeming, Thompson, Gannon have nice moments but sometimes I question whether they are even super league standard players. I thought Austin has been great for you in this run of wins.

Anyway, see you next season folks. I hope Smith continues to improve you guys. A strong Leeds team can only be a good thing for the game.