achieved more as a team member, and he was a good squad member until the last year or so.
three hit up last week acceptable you think?
peacock and singleton ran there blood to water last night while he did virtually nothing.
you think he was better than any of murrays pack then you are more deluded than anyone thought. and that would take some doing

Agreed.He wouldn't have fit in at all, and stood out like a sore thumb for the shirker he is in the pack we had back then.

reminds me of chris feather. had everything to be absolute quality except for his heart, size of a pea.
compare that to burrow who gets hammered every week but still comes back for more

Agree about the halves being poor and I'd extend that to include hooker too. I'd also lay some blame at the door of forwards not providing enough support runs. There was just a lack of movement in general.

Disagree about Hall. I think it's his brain and reading of a game that makes him such an outstanding winger.

Being a team member is all you need to be in order to archive things. As an individual player Kirke might not have been as great as other individuals at the club in the past but this sport isn’t about individuals – It’s about the team. Personally I don’t think any player has disgraced themselves this year for Leeds but just had bad games like every other player in Super League. If you want to see unacceptability in this league then look at the cricket score lines that several clubs have conceded throughout the season. To conclude Brian McDermott’s pack IMO is better than Graham Murrays pack and the current one just happens to have Ian Kirke in it.

peacock apart, and maybe JJB, nobody else would have got into murrays pack.
just my opinion mind

thats the thing,he has the size and frame to do so much more than he does but it seems like he doesnt ever want to do anymore than the bare minimum.The sad facts are we can and we have carried Kirke while our front line props are about in JP and Kyle (and Bailey to some extent) allowing him to do just that, but when they are not there he simply cannot up his game to the required level.On the flip side Singleton has done just that and it would be a real shame if he sacrafised when all our players are fit.

I think Murray would have liked Kylie and Delaney. Whether they'd have displaced what we had I don't know, but they have the sort of no nonsense physicality Murray's pack had. It was attitude as much as ability that made that pack (which isn't to say they weren't also good players).

1999 Cup Final pack:

8. Fleary
9. Newton
10. McDermott
11. Morley
12. Farrell
13. Glanville

Subs - Mathiou, Jackson & Hay

2012 Grand Final pack:

8. Leuluai
9. Burrow
10. Peacock
11. JJB
12. Delaney
13. Bailey

Subs - Kirke, Griffin, Ward, Lunt

If I had to choose I know which pack I'd have.

So yet again the question remains why then does he still get selected??

The vast majority on here continue to be bemused..... even his supporter(s) must acknowledge that his so called assest of not giving away penalties and being 'safe' is purely because he does not bluddy well get involved. It's a disgrace.
As you fear no doubt he will continue to be selected at the expense of the far more effective Singleton.

Delaney yes. kylie at his peak again yes but now. way past his best

Awesome player.

The problem for leeds when it comes to the playoffs and trying to win the grand final is hooker.

We don't have buderus to start, we don't have lunt off the bench.

Mcshane is too inconsistent and he doesn't direct the team around the park correctly, certainly not well enough for a playoff and grand final situation.

All the rivals, wigan warrington hudds and saints have better options. The failure to make the lunt deal permanent or to replace him could well cost us the title this year.

The best we can hope is that mcguire get's at least 80% fit, and burrow can go to hooker as at least he provides better direction and has bags of experience.

I think people are in for rude awakening in the playoffs, a very rude awakening indeed.

Burrow at hooker is part of the problem,he takes at least two steps sideways before he passes,by which time the defensive line are on the intended receiver,hardly any wonder McShanes confidence looks shot when he's out for large parts of a game.