I now find you compelling. You'll have to live with the burdon m'lud.

See I live in my overdraft, on the premise that I'm having the best time of my life so why not have fun while I can?

Granted I'll be working in the summer to put the money back.

Here's a little secret some of us old boys often keep to ourselves.....you have a long life and your best times are not over at 21..

thats irrelevant, the point CMR and Invincible were making that is it is possible to live within your means whilst at university, and this should be applicable no matter what number of students read for a degree.

the point i was making was that massive levels of debt are now considered the norm, again, no matter what number of students read for a degree.

however, there are students, one a regular poster on here, that seem to have gone to uni for the criac, and having graduated are doing fu[ick[/i all with themselves, and their degrees now, but i suspect that the individual on here doesnt have massive amounts of debt anyway.

Actually the number of students does matter, because it all has to be paid for by someone. If the top 7% of students go to University after school then the taxpayer can foot the bill and pay a grant and housing benefit etc. and look at it as an investment in the future economy of the country. When 50% go on to higher education it's not an investment in the future economy of the country, and the taxpayer can't afford to subsidise academicaly week individuals who should be and would be better served developeing in a different environment. So hence no grant, tuition fees, high rents etc....

I would say that 40% of students at university are not where they should be. Universities were designed to take the academicaly gifted and maximise that potential. Not to take anyone with one grade E at A level and give them a "degree" at the expense of taxpayers.

Thats all fair enough, it really is, but that isnt how it is, nor how it will probably be ever again. universities will accept anyone who is willing to pay, and with the debt culture that we live in, that is just about anyone who applies.

as noted above, fees will rise to a minimum of £5000 from next summer, but applications wont decline, because it can all be paid for later, maybe even with a summer job...

It's nigh on impossible to live at uni without going in to an overdraft. I was left with £112 of my last loan after my rent was paid, how is that supposed to last 3 months until the next installment?

Even with a job (yes I'm now working) I'm majorly overdrawn and I don't go out THAT much.

i agree, i stayed debt free owing to working a ridiculous amount of hours and living at home.

the average student (no pun intended) isnt able to study without debt, but you, like most others have to accept a massive amount of debt to earn your degree.

Which then leads to the debate of whether or not it's worth it. Personally I'm getting loads of work experience in all sectors of sport trying to enhance my CV for when I go graduate, but I'm still thinking it'll be hard to find a job.

because of the education you will have or because of the economic climate?

Both I'm guessing, although I suspect things will have picked up by then.

It is possible I know people who did it, you can't do it having a job that works 2 or 3 hours a week its hard work but its possible if you want to - and thats the problem too many take debt for granted and think it didn't matter.

I lived at home and worked damn hard simply because I knew couldn't afford to live away - its about living within your means, I would have loved to move away to uni but it wasn't possible. But we have a society who on the whole are uncapable of living within their means so why is it a shock most students can't.