Thanks for that, remember it clearly now.

entertaining a great but picking up cups is better.

If you ask most players and coaches, they'll tell you entertainment is a distant second to winning.

My post that you first challenged made a first point that Mac' critics are quick to throw stones but find it difficult to give him credit. How many times have you praised Mac this season Tad? Your reply rather demonstrates this point.

You also "absolute rubbish"ed my second point that in early 2011 the team were not quite ready to play the new coaches chosen style saying that "he's had 5 years with more or less the same players"

Having pointed out to you that the majority of that team have left you moved your goal posts and changed your point to say "the majority of KEY players have been around for all of his tenure" as though this was a reason that the team were ready of the offload game at the start of Mac's tenure in 2011.

As you kindly pointed out my age gives me an excuse for memory loss but I do not need to use it on this occasion ....what is your excuse young lad? Given that Mags and JP missed the first 3 mths of 2011 and by the time they returned the 'harlem globetrotters' experiment had been phased out so you are left with Sinny...... A majority of one key player! So how does this disprove my point that at the start of 2011 the team were not ready for the offload game?




I do not think I have said we have no structure. I believe this has been one of your calls over the years. There were plenty of clues in how we got to our many finals under BM that we had good defensive structure but you are one of those that assumed that whenever the players failed to keep to the structure you assumed it was because they had not been coached correctly.

On attack Mac prefers to give the players some leeway on the back of plays well worked out on the training field. When they come off they look great but when players are not at their best things look bad. It is at this time that you critics strike and blame the coach which I think shows a complete lack of understanding of what is within the control of the coach once the players take the field. So when I argue against his critics it is not because I believe him to be mistake free but that you should look at the players first because it is they who either make it happen of not depending on their form and timing.



Yes he did but he was primarily a winger in those days. Now once again Tad you are behind the times. What was said in previous seasons is valid or not at the time. I have stated my up to date views on Hardaker however my glasses do not have the same rose tint as yours.



Yes next year will be a crunch year and one made more difficult by losing Kevin Sinfield earlier than perhaps had been planned and with serious injuries to JJB and Sutcliffe. However GH & Mac have made a good start with the pack but I do think we need some extra cover at 6 now we are losing our No1 key man.



You are not aware of a coaches choices due to form on the training field, or knowledge of the players recovery time. Mac's tactics despite what you say have been successful so far this season.



The players have played some awful boring stuff but why do you choose to blame the coach before the players?

You certainly call the negatives a lot quicker than the positives as you see them but remember t is only as you see them.

and you don't call things as you see them???

Of course. But I do not rush to blame the coach every time the team do not perform

The problem with calling things as you see them in this respect is that fans only see what 20% of the information that goes into decision making and the impact decisions have on many other aspects.

Of which the "no plan B" complaint is the most obvious example.

If the Plan A that you worked on all week on the training field isn't working, the coach gets a maximum of five "active listening" minutes at half-time to correct it. Players are too fatigued both physically and mentally at the break to take in too much tactical information, so the best he can do is offer them some pointers and hope they sink in. No coach in the world has time to install a whole new gameplan mid-game.

Often where a team appears to have "no plan B", it's because the key players in the side are either unable to recognise that Plan A is failing or simply don't have the game management and leadership skills to be able to change it on the hoof and start to play what's in front of them rather than what they were expecting. The last couple of Magic Weekends are perfect examples of Leeds sides not being able to come up with a solution out on the field for breaking down Wigan's "blitz" defence, instead sticking to the pre-planned approach of battering away down the middle, little inside passes off the ruck etc.

Nobody on the field was able to grab hold of the side and say "right, this is what we're going to do differently", yet it's the coach who usually cops the criticism for the players not being able to play with their heads up.

I'm not sure you can even get that much in. I was always told, and coached the same myself, that you will do well to get three points across. Two of those were always "move up faster in defence" and "be more patient in attack" anyway, so that left one

More boring arguments

I prefer discussion. I think we'll agree to disagree mind.................................

Haven't got a problem with that. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion.

of course not. I don't expect people to agree with everything I say and vice versa.

Back on topic...

Surely HKR (especially without campese) are the biggest underdogs since Wigan vs Sheffield... Of course we all know how that worked out!!! Can't right them off and I'm sure Leeds are too professional to even dream of doing so.

Which reminds me, I'm no gambling man but I did place a bet on that cup final. Got Eagles at 13/1...I didn't expect them to win just thought the odds were ridiculous for a two team final.