I don't recall you ever looking even remotely as sh*t last year as you do this, so I don't really see your point.

Yeah the malaise is deep and credit to you Gotcha for being the most emphatic about seeing the writing on the wall.... All people are saying is we have a hopeless coach compounding the problem.

Undoubtedly a better coach would get better results....still not satisfactory maybe, but ' better '

In a way I am happy to see the present situation.... It might result in the rocket up the ass sooner. Better to have tissue paper covering the fissures rather than cardboard.

Really? So how many points did we have at this stage last season compared to this?

Make no mistake we look sh*t, that there is no doubt, and it may well pan out that the coch is not up to the job. But don't kid yourself that the players we have at the moment are what they were in 2009 and before, because they are nothing like mate.

As sh*t as we do look though, I can't remember a performance throughout the whole of last season that came anything close to the first 65 minutes we put in against Wigan. I supposse that was just down to the players though?

There's got to be some sort of balance when dishing out the blame or criticising performances.
Two things alot of fans thought/hoped would of improved under Brian Mc were discipline and defence and both are still woefull.
As for the players they could and should be producing much better but don't lok like they want to play for the coach imo and no matter how pi$$ed off they looked at FT they should look in the mirror at alot of what they've produced.
The coaches also have to shoulder some blame Gotcha i accept injuries are beyond their control and of course seasoned pros should'nt be tackling like Andy Hay or passing into the stands but there seems to be no defensive structure or switch in policy with the ball when we can all see we need to be more desperate in defence and get back to completion ,a good kicking game and basic RL before we try the fancy stuff.
I also think he should be stronger and drop the under-oerformers injuries or not even if it's only to the bench to point out that what's served up is'nt acceptable.
The u20's before fridays game were outmuscled up against a big team and did a lot of defence but showed hunger ,desire ,structure and only lost on goal kicks the head coach should have a word with Gibson and find out what he's doing right.

9

I appreciate that, I'm just talking about how the team looks like its being coached when out on the park. They quite often look an absolute shambles in defence and attack and I can't see how that is all down to the players.

Wasn't this the general comments from players about Bluey also? I would suggest the players are creating a bit of a pattern here if that is the case. Two coaches on the trot.

So it's not that McDermott is a bad coach, but that the players don't want to play for him? I mean just for clarification, Bluey also took this side backwards last season.




There was no fancy stuff on Friday, and I personally think this is becoming an ever repeating excuse for critisism from fans. There was no excuses for dropped balls Friday, they were passes in the main that players should be taking in. They certainly were not adventurous fancy plays.




Completely agree, and really thought McDermott would be stronger with this sort of thing. But then again nothing was different when it came to form in matches when Smith or Bluey were coaching us.




Agree again. But when you hear from the players and the coaches it seems that this is exactly what they put in in training but then just don't do it at matches. Perhaps the u20's just have a better attitude to it than the first team?

I don't mind losing matches to better teams. It happens. This is sport after all.

The problem I have is that these teams we're losing to aren't necessarily "better". It's our attitude that's the main problem at the moment. This Friday, other that Burrow, we looked totally and utterly disinterested. At all times.

At one point, we needed 3 tries in 20 minutes (definitely achievable) and if you'd have switched on at that point you'd be forgiven for thinking it was already over.

The way Webby handled his sin binning was appalling. Taking the longest possible root to leave the pitch, walking as slowly as he can, and stopping to talk to Hudds players on the way. Far too big for his boots and needs an attitude adjustment. That level of arrogance for a player on the receiving end of a spanking just shows that these guys want the results handing on a plate and don't seem willing at all to put the work in to win. They seem to want to win every match at a canter, and are easily frustrated when they don't.

Really?

Just think about a game against the same opposition.

Huddersfield are a very good team at the moment,top of the league, Wigan are reigning champions, Warrington are two time cup holders.

Perhaps some of these teams are better than us at the moment?

All of those three teams most of posters said we would finish behind when predicting finishing tables at the beginning of the season.

The players can't hide from the performances they produce. But, there are good players in that team and the whole thing looks like it is disorganised, lacking direction and lacking confidence. On Friday, we started with a lot of enthusiasm, then sloppy execution took over, Hudds scored twice and confidence just seemed to drain away. The players need to do some soul-searching about that.

However, I believe in simple explanations. I like Occam's razor, as a means of not introducing more variables to a solution than are required to explain the observed outcomes. We are here provided with a situation where we are attempting to add the individual and collective attitudes of around 20 different, independently minded (sort of) people, to a hypothesis of "lack of direction from the coaching staff - 2 main actors - which seems to me to explain most of what I see quite adequately.

I also don't think that the track records of the coaches and players in question can be wholely ignored in the search for explanations. How many boxes of tools can one poor workman blame?

Yep. I would actually have been a little surprised had we beaten to Huddersfield. It was more the manner of the performance that troubled me. As was the case against Hull KR the week before.

A fair point. But equally important is last seasons record too, where neither coaches worked with the players in question. Why do we ignore that?

So your conclusion that our "efforts" at goal line defence is proof that the players do not want to play for Mac. ....Errr can you just run that logic past me again G1?

So are you saying that these same "players who set the SL standard with 3 GF wins on the bounce" still need coaching on how to tackle because they have forgotten? Have they also forgetten how to keep hold of the ball as well?

So you think these missed tackles and basic handling errors together with the many, many injuries have not been the major reason for our poor performances.

Are you saying the players are deliberately sabotaging the coach?

Do your comments about Harlequins take into account his spending limitations and the fact that he was trying to rebuild a team less reliant on Ozzie recruits?

The depth of your insight seems to be equal to the brevity of your argument.