Wish I had under achieved as much at rugby :-p

Gareth mate - he HAS to be cheap. There's no other logical explanation. The ONLY reason he gets a shirt has to be because he's getting paid 12 pence a week. There can be no other reason.

He is a first team player, but he is not a leading player. You cannot have 4 top props on your books. The slaary cap won't allow it, unless you have gash backs.

In terms of contribution you seem to only watch the side of the game where Leeds have the ball. And yes, he is poor to woeful in this area, especially for a man of his size.Howveer, when we are defending his workrate is good, not just in making one up tackles, but being a second or third man in others which allows us to control the tackler get him onto his back and make the PTB slow.

In terms of money, he will almost definitely be on more than Singleton, but thats because he has continued to be part of the squad. He won't be on loads of money, because Leeds have a rigid pay structure, and he's never even got close to any sort of international honours.

You may think that all players may want to oust their rivals from a shirt, but they will also be realistic. Kirke is not capable of what Peacock does, and never will do. There's barely anyone in Super League that can do. I also don't know that he's ever said he's content to give Peacock a breather, although I'm sure you'll have a link somewhere. Also, from a Salary Cap planning point of view, I would say that having a few players who have a glass ceiling in terms of talent is not a bad thing. They are limited but solid enough and will be fairly constant in terms of money.

Overall, I would agree with your comments that he is lucky to be part of such a sucessful club, and on what we see on the pitch there are other people who could fill that spot in SL, however, his type of player, especially in the forwards, are in all of the top sides because the salary cap demands it.

We have a squad that the highest people at the club acknowledge is in part down to getting the best out of the cap, and I don't see why you can't see that Kirke is a part of that.

I'd rather of had a James Graham or a Sam Burgess in our front row these last few years, but not if it meant having Danny Orr instead of McGuire

With Kylie and Bails out for a run....been a good chance for Kirke to step up.

I take all that on board and accept much of it.

I'd say he's adequate to good at Defending though.

I think a bit of balance is required here. I have already posted my disappointment at Kirke's ineffective go-forward display against Warrington.

But on the plus side he made the 3rd most tackles for Leeds with 36 and it should also be pointed out his big improvement in the metre making department this season. He ranks as the best forward for metres per carry of the regulars averaging 7.4 metres per carry with Bailey the last placed forward with 5.4 metres per carry. He has made more tackles, more busts, more marker tackles than Kylie who has been in good form. So it would seem he does a reliable job for his coach and we should remember too he did not want to move into the front row and much prefers the second row.

I view him very much in the same way as Bailey. Both good, solid reliable defenders who are better in the back row running wide but are proven to do a good defensive job around the ruck area as a prop. IMO Kirke has got a new contract because he has shown a real improvement this year in his go forward game. Last Friday he fell back to the his former Bailey type level

The problem with kirke is not his skill or lack of skill its the effort he shows in games. Take Delaney for example, the difference in skill between Delaney and kirke is pretty small but what makes Delaney a good player and liked by most fans is the effort he puts in every week. I can't remember a game in the past few years where Delaney hasn't looked fooked mid way through the game but carries on put his body on the line for the team, where as I can't recall a game where kirke has ever looked tired. He comes off most games looking as fresh as he went on and this is where the issue lies. 36 tackles last week if a fair efforts from him and he may well of been knackered but again he looked fresh which leaves you questioning whether he could have taken more carries and made more tackles.

Kirke is very physically fit. Aside from all the rhinos training he is big into his crossfit training. I agree with your point though re Delaney you can tell he has put everything he has into every game, which is why he is popular with the fans

I find it infuriating (Kirke's lack of effort) and can;t believe the lengths people go to defend/explain it.

Put Delaney's attitude into Kirke's frame and you have the best forward in the world.

We like that type of forward at Leeds thought. Chris Feather and Wayne McDonald also fit into the model of having the build but no heart

Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

So now he doesn't look tired enough? I think if you watch him when he's on he works very hard when we defend. Not just tackling but assisting and slowing down other people's. Just because he doesn't look knackered doesn't mean he isn't working hard

I would say that the fact that he's lasted 8 years at the club when the others only managed 3 means he must be doing something well

Perhaps some of the best coaches in the game know something that Kirke's knockers don't?????
But hang on, that cant be right, because they know it all.
He's not the best player in the team, but IMO, he rarely lets the team down.
I often watch replays of the GF matches and he's played a significant part in all those he's played in.