Supposedly, although how much do the RFL check that everyone running a coaching session is qualified?

It's now two days and costs £130, which is hardly likely to encourage those who aren't already qualified to become so.

According to the RFL website, there are no places left on Level 1 courses for this year either - all of them are fully booked.

Level 2 is four days and costs £180, and is recommended for those involved in the 13-a-side open age or community game.

£90 and £110 payable by the coach Andy, they're both subsidised by the RFL. As usual for the RFL, their website is out of date, still stating "Course dates for the period September to December will become available in July"

Not sure how the RFL check the team has qualified coaches, but we've had to state who are coaches are for entry to the league and show they're qualified. The rules only call for one coach to be qualified at each session, which is a help when starting out, when it isn't realistic to have a full set of qualified coaches. In our junior section all our assistants are L1 and head coaches are L2 now, and we've been able to get RFL coaching development officers to coach coaches and take player sessions. If we can do it, as an outpost in the south Midlands, any club in the heartlands should be able to.

You know what? This post must rank as one of the best i have ever read on this board and clearly shows the frustration with the junior level coaching standards. How many times have we seen half time games with as you correctly say dominated by "pass it to the big 'un" mentality? too many id say. If you dont have the basics down how the hell are you supposed to coach the more in depth tactical drills?

When we played the Aussies they played error free, no frills rugby league and ground us down with accurate, well planned sets and a very good kicking game ie "basics". Once they had seen off our challenge upfront and run up the scoreboard, capitalizing off some unfortunate errors from us they then started to move the ball quicker and tried to showcase the usual Aussie "bag of tricks" plays, some worked, some didnt. But they knew when to start playing and when to front up again basics.

Is the amateur game even "talking" to the professional game these days?

Agree completely that the state of junior coaching is by and large a joke. My son is now playing for the school team as well as the local amateur team and neither team coaches any skills at all. To say there are players who cannot even hold the ball properly would be an understatement, and the do have the token "fat kid" who is positively hopeless in every respect, not that its his fault of course as he has had zero coaching input.

We fail to develop enough junior talent because junior teams rely on the 3 or 4 decent players that they have and the others never see the ball.

If we really want to improve it will be a long hard road and we need to start at the bottom not half way up the hill....

Quote: batleyrhino "Is the amateur game even "talking" to the professional game these days? Agree completely that the state of junior coaching is by and large a joke. My son is now playing for the school team as well as the local amateur team and neither team coaches any skills at all. To say there are players who cannot even hold the ball properly would be an understatement, and the do have the token "fat kid" who is positively hopeless in every respect, not that its his fault of course as he has had zero coaching input. We fail to develop enough junior talent because junior teams rely on the 3 or 4 decent players that they have and the others never see the ball. If we really want to improve it will be a long hard road and we need to start at the bottom not half way up the hill....'" They're pretty well connected, although perhaps better for us in the Conference structure rather than BARLA. Good details here www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=209538 Lets all remember one thing in criticising these junior coaches though: They're putting time and effort into coaching kids. You're (and I just mean everyone, not you Batley ) not. I'm sure they would appreciate help, whether as another coach, or taking care of the "dirty work" of collecting and sorting kit, arranging lifts, confirming games with opponents, sending in scorelines and match reports, etc.

Quote: batleyrhino "Is the amateur game even "talking" to the professional game these days? Agree completely that the state of junior coaching is by and large a joke. My son is now playing for the school team as well as the local amateur team and neither team coaches any skills at all. To say there are players who cannot even hold the ball properly would be an understatement, and the do have the token "fat kid" who is positively hopeless in every respect, not that its his fault of course as he has had zero coaching input. We fail to develop enough junior talent because junior teams rely on the 3 or 4 decent players that they have and the others never see the ball. If we really want to improve it will be a long hard road and we need to start at the bottom not half way up the hill....'" They're pretty well connected, although perhaps better for us in the Conference structure rather than BARLA. Good details here www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=209538 Lets all remember one thing in criticising these junior coaches though: They're putting time and effort into coaching kids. You're (and I just mean everyone, not you Batley ) not. I'm sure they would appreciate help, whether as another coach, or taking care of the "dirty work" of collecting and sorting kit, arranging lifts, confirming games with opponents, sending in scorelines and match reports, etc.

I know it's the metaphorical "you" Richie, so none taken. FWIW I am actually doing more coaching of the school team than the teacher is but unfortunately it's restricted to match days due to work commitments.

I understand that the people who are giving up their time are doing so for free and of their own free will, so I don't mean to bag them per se, I'm just frustrated at the lack of education they receive really which manifests in the development (of lack thereof) of the players under their tutelage. I see the issues in coaching in the same way as the issues in playing, no shortage of effort, but a real shortage of quality...

There needs to be a root and branch restructure of junior coaching, not forgetting to coach the coaches, so that we can improve the quality of junior rugby, and therefore send kids into the open age game with a much better skill set.

I'm not sure why that education is not there though. I can't really believe we have more access to resources here in Northampton than a club in the heartlands would, would we?

More access, probably not. More desire to use it, probably.

There is a view that because certain clubs are in the Heartlands, they already know how to teach kids to play and therefore don't need any education. IMO the ones that don't ask for it, are probably the ones that need it most....

A lot of these people, who work very hard with some of the kids under their control, are usually parents of one of the team, and focus on their child and the other "talents" without giving any time to the other kids, which only exacerbates the problem.

I applaud people who are willing to open their minds to education, sadly not enough are willing to do that IMHO.

Are you seriously suggesting that after 3 games Lee Smith or Chris Ashton could have done as well as Widdop for England?? The last junior I saw who I would have been confident about being able to play for England after 3 games was Garry Schofield in 1983. I genuinely can't think of anyone else who I'd be confident about after so few games - not Farrell, Sculthorpe, Harris, Robinson, Newlove - all of whom were better players than Ashton or Lee Smith are ever likely to be. Lee Smith looked hopelessly out of his depth at centre for England after a full season there for Leeds. Widdop was able to look OK despite not playing there at all.

The point about Widdop isn't that he's going to be a star - in fact I doubt it from what I've seen. The point is he's well enough endowed with all the basic elements of the game that he didn't look out of place for England. Not the best player in our team, just not out of place.

Also, well said to whoever talked about the Aussies doing the basics first. They can run any side off their feet, but they generally try to work their way into a game first. Their execution of simple sets of 6 with no flash stuff - e.g. working the ball away from their own line - is simple but well done with a low error rate. You can tell that the whole side knows what they're doing and why. Then when they do get into an attacking position, there's a sense of control, with the playmakers calling the plays and again the team for the most part on the same page. The comparison is not just with England, but the way most SL sides play as well. We always talk about how great 'off the cuff' play is - and it can be exciting to watch - but sadly it looks like schoolboy rugby when it comes up against a well-drilled side.

Number of games, don't know. Same age, undoubtedly. In fact, considering the style of player Smith and Ashton are, they'd probably have looked better against France than Widdop did.

You can probably tell from my post how frustrated I am at the basic skills levels, of course there are always exceptions and we have a couple of very good young lads who could make the grade in my opinion, however (and this is where McLaren's Big Daft Lads Theory comes into effect) they are generally the slightly more intelligent kids who instead of continuing playing RL at amateur level will be put off by the too often aggressive and intimidating atmosphere, concentrate instead on GCSE's and A-Level's and get a decent job instead of RL. Whereas the thick as 2 short planks lads will happily carry on.

You're absolutely right about the Aussies game, they grind and grind and do the basics well time and time again until we c0ck up and then they know what to do at the right times, whereas ours too often need someone to tell them what to do next.

Without wanting to make this a nice little love-in I sort of agree with everyone. In that I agree with Batley that there is a significant element of junior coaches who are in it either for egotistical reasons or to advance their own child's cause, and I agree with Richie that there are an awful lot of people who are in it for the right reasons and give up an awful lot their time to try and help the game.

I don't necessarily think the problem is with the coaching course itself since you can only do so much and only expect so much from volunteers. 4 days worth is already a significant commitment from volunteers who also have to go to work.

I think the problem lays with the Barla set up and more importantly some of the old farts within the Barla set up. My brother has just moved down from York to Nottingham and having watched him play in the Barla league to now be playing in the Conference I know which I enjoyed more. There were no drunks shouting abuse on the sidelines, no club officials going crazy at ref's decisions, no "linesmen" from each side attempting to screw over the opposition and just a much happier, healthier atmosphere to play the game in. It appeared that people were playing the game to enjoy playing instead of playing it to prove who's hardest.
How many times in Barla have teams and players been up before the "disciplinary" after committing what can only be classed as assault to receive a pansy @rse punishment because the "disciplinary" like the club/player/officials involved.

Until we get rid of that aggressive, backward element the more intelligent kids will be put off the game and we won't get rid of the "bad" youth coaches within the game.

I don't know much about the Conference to be honest and I'm sure it has its own problems but having watched a few games I know which I'd rather be in. I'm even considering coming out of retirement!

Got any North Leeds based clubs in mind there Rob?

The administration at BARLA makes Will Carling's "57 Old Farts" seem like cutting edge progressives - it's the same people running the same committees who have been around for 20 years or more scratching each other's backs.