Clearly is an issue if you can have the 2nd highest attack and never be close to catching the top 4 last year, they were 9th with only 2/3 weeks remaining of the regular season and only jumped up the table because Catalans, Widnes and Wildcats took the last third of the season off.

The point was purely about cas winning trophies it had nothing to do with another team. Including our own. Cas won't win trophies without a total transformation in defence.

If Gale was out as much as McGuire they would have been in a similar position to us.

They did have their starting half back out for as much as McGuire was out last season. That's more the point, people want to rewrite history to suit a point they have, rather than what was the reality.

Both sides at full strength and they were miles ahead of us last season, and have only gone and increased that distance by the looks of things for this coming year. And yet, both same squads with a different coach each, and I would bet there would be little difference between them.

Again, the debate was more about whether they'll be good for top 4 this time. I think most posters recognise McDermott has shortcomings - but does Powell? If his side don't defend well this time out then for me he doesn't have anywhere left to hide with regard to this issue. Fluent, attacking side? Definitely. But we've all seen ultimately unsuccessful teams that embody that great attack/poor defence template.

I'm not re-writing history. You are in fantasy land if you think Ben Roberts a running 5/8 (and a bang average one at best) has the influence over the Cas team as McGuire does at Leeds. Gale is The main man at Cas as is McGuire at Leeds. That's the comparison. Don't change the comparison and argue a different point.

If you don't agree that's fine but dont change the goal posts and move the discussion away from the point I made. And start arguing about a point I didn't make.

Spot on, he keeps bringing Leeds into it for no reason as if saying Cas are better than Leeds means they'll be successful. They could well finish above us this season but still end up doing nothing with a 5th place finish. At the moment I'd still fancy Wigan, Wire, Hull and Saints to finish ahead of them, as last years top 4 that's a more relevant comparison than going on about the difference between Cas & Leeds.

I am not dissagreeing with you on the merits of Roberts, I am pointing out a similar scenario to one you hypothetically mentioned. We were a better side last year when McGuire was out compared to when he was in, so It is more fantasy to suggest him missing was a problem. But I gave you the similar situation at Cas which you had brought up about players missing, which was that their starting half was missing as much as McGuire.

It could be argued that Cas may well have scored even more points had they had their missing players, which would again completely nulify the argument on defence. But again it is all hypothetical, and to me has no bearing on what will be happening this coming season.

The more relevant question is have Cas a stronger squad for this coming season than they had start of last season? most Cas fans, and quite rightly, would say they definitely have. Now when you add the key players to that who were injured for a lot of last season, it gets even stronger still. As I said it is ok talking about final points conceeded in a historical season, but if you don't relate it to the context of what was happening with injuries, then what is the point?

Absolutely. What was the context in 2015 when they again had the second-worst defence of the top eight teams? I don't know the answer btw; they may also have had an injury crisis then.

I disagree that we were better without McGuire from the point of view that we looked the better team and more than capable of beating Wire till Mags went off in the first game. Till he went off he looked like the player from 2015. We missed that guy so much we nearly got relegated. The injured bloke who kept coming back had a limited contribution. We did in my opinion look better without Hardaker.

And do I think Cas have a squad with better players? Personally no I don't think they do. Do they have a better attacking structure? Yes. Better defence No. Do they have players who would get in our team? Yep. But more of ours would get in theirs. Just my opinion.

100% our defence needs to improve if we are to break into the top 4. To say we only finished as strong as we did was due to other teams taking their foot off the peddle is very disrespectful. In the super 8s we won 5/7 games and were in front against Wire till the last move of the game. To finish the season like we did with the mass injuries we had was a testament to Powell . Some of the players we had missing for a large chunk of the season were key defenders, Shenton Lynch Moors (our player of the year missed 1/3 of the season), Millo, Holmes .

As for next year, well I've been supporting Cas since 96 and our squad for the season ahead is the best I've seen in that time and I feel more optimistic then I've ever felt. I think a focused , enthusiastic and committed Zak Hardaker will be a focal point in seeing that initial improvement in defence.

And I recon Matt Parcell will be the buy of the season. True story.

That's fair enough, he may well be. Not seen much of him to comment either way. Bags of pace but not the same pedigree of your judas. That said his best years are in front of him.

Funny how when people adopt that same paragraph to Leeds' season they get shouted down as making excuses.

You've not seen enough to comment! But you did anyway?