SL is in the entertainment business and we have entertained. Even if we don't win the Oscar we have been the best so far so why hold back on giving credit when it's due

Can't see us being complacent with Sinfield and Peacock, they won't allow it to happen with it being their final year.

We haven't conceded more than 16 points in our last 8 CC games stretching back to the start of the 2014 competition and that includes games vs Saints x 2, Wire, Hudds and a Cas side who scored points very well last year so it's going to be very tough for HKR to score enough points to win IMO.

I think looking back at his early years at Leeds then yes McDermott was learning on the job (one he inherited 12 months early) and of course made mistakes, he also seemed awkward and uncomfortable which made it hard for people to at warm to him personally regardless of results.

Key thing I think though is recruitment which I'm not sure you can lay at his door, around that time it was our poorest for a long time. Ben Cross, Moore, Griffin, Hauraki, simply not good enough as well as losing our first batch of 'core' players in Senior, Webb and Ali. He's too often been left with a squad that he's clearly not fully confident in a chunk of the players. Switch to the last couple of years and he's been recruited Briscoe, Moon, Cuthbertson, Garbutt and finally seen the likes of Stevie Ward and Singleton ready to play weekly to a good standard.

Interesting several weeks back I read GH talking about Cuthbertson saying we tried to sign him 5 years ago but it didn't happen. Could've made those early McDermott years very different if we'd have pulled off that singing at that time.

So now you have changed to say KEY players. Which ones are you talking about then from the team I mentioned at the Millenium in 2011 ? who were?

Web BJB Delaney Senior Hall
Sinfield Burrow
Kylie Buderus Cross
JJB Ali L
Ablett

Bench: L Burgess Kirke Pitts Watkins

Remember Mac started in 2011 without JP & Mags who were both on the long term injured list. Delaney was in the , Senior later got injured and Ablett stood in then a young Hardaker and Watkins was just a youngster making the odd appearance.

Since then Mac has made 1st teamers out of youngsters Sutcliffe, S Ward, Singleton, Watkins, & Hardaker converting the latter to a FB. Also new players were signed Moon, Achurch, Briscoe, Aiton, Cuthbertson and Garbutt. So the team has been evolving throughout the McDermott era.

You talk of structure and set plays when in fact our attacking style of play is unstructured with less emphasis on set plays. You talk of how long it has taken him to achieve as though every other team is playing the same entertaining way. You discount the fact that BM took over a team that had lost its way the previous season and whose stars were ageing and with key men injured yet he was able to produce back to back championships and then a long awaited Challenge Cup. You talk of overplaying players as though you are an expert in such matters and were in possession of all the facts at the time.

How many times have you expressed your "joy" regarding our coach this year?

Which Leeds coach has a better record at getting to finals and winning trophies and then creating the most exciting side in SL? He doesn't look a top coach this year he is the top coach this year.

I mentioned credit for finals twice. how many times do you want it repeating. I know you are ageing but surely not that forgetful? JP and mcguire may not have played that game but they were both around and had been for seasons. clutching at straws to suit your argument?
if you think we have no structure then you need to look again. the offloads are only part of it. the running across the line, drawing men into the tackle and going wide early, while sounding basic, is done to a very high structured standard. it's been worked on and worked on, for which, again, I have given plenty of credit.
hardaker played full back at Featherstone and plenty on here, including me, were calling for him to go there before webb retired. it was hardly rocket science, although he has got far better than I expected. best full back in then SL by miles, but not according to you!
whilst he deserves credit for evolving the team, which again I have said a few times, the real crunch is next season. this would be same whoever is the coach.
as for being an expert on over playing players when forwards can hardly walk and he has used 2 subs in an hour you don't really have to be an expert to ask questions.
we have played some awful stuff when he took over. dour, boring rugby. last season he started changing the style and has taken it further season for which, plenty of times, I have praised him for. unlike you who fail to see his shortcomings I call it as I see it

It's the way the cookie crumbles.

what is 2005 more memorable for? 2 final defeats or slaughtering Wigan in fine style 70-0 at Headingley?

IMV it's most memorable for being cheated out of a Grand Final win because the Bulls cheated the salary cap to bring Adrian Morley over.
The cup final defeat was self-inflicted.

Classic southstander some would say



A few weeks before that final IIRC Bulls schooled us at Headingley. without Morley!

That was the game before the CC final where Senior got injured and the season started going tits up

[urlhttp://www.therhinos.co.uk/rugby/matchcentre/10609.php[/url

Thanks for that, remember it clearly now.

entertaining a great but picking up cups is better.

If you ask most players and coaches, they'll tell you entertainment is a distant second to winning.