Like three or four others he needs to be playing against quality blokes every week.injured at the minute though

Agree Johnson could do playing mainly at championship level this year. He only started training full time half way through 2019, he has plenty of time. End of this year Dwyer and myler are out of contract.

Regarding oledski, I think his body shape is much better this year, has slimmed down and I think will be much better and more mobile for it. Still only young for a prop.

Aaron Smith and ashworth at saints are only becoming regulars in last year or so and are 23 ish.

Where does this nonsense of the game harder to introduce younger now come from? It’s all relative anyway, but regardless this comp is nothing to what it was.

Despite this other clubs put out and back youngsters regardless. We used to be the leader in this, and hence why we had a golden generation of a lot of homegrown. Now we say things, but don’t back it up.

Last night Cas had a lad on bench making his debut at prop, and he’s younger than Holroyd, and Johnson. This was against a good Wigan side as well, not a run of mill match.

Why do you think it’s nonsense? The physical demands have significantly increased in the last 20 years. Ex and current players and coaches along with common sense and the evidence in front of us every week shows that to be the case.

I don’t see masses of 17/18 year olds being played consistently by other clubs. They appear to be doing it mostly when there’s little other option.

The NRL clearly think it’s not right to introduce youngsters to first grade so young as their average age of debut is significantly higher than SL’s.

As for the young lad making his debut for Cas, didn’t they have significant injury problems? And didn’t Holroyd make his debut 2 years ago?

It’s absolute nonsense, and no such evidence exists. Players are no faster, and no stronger than they were 15-20 years ago. The defences are far less intense, and so much has been taken out of the game to soften it, it is a far cry from what it was.

I'm all for bringing through the young players but it should be measured and controlled and in the long term interest of both club and player.

We have nobody in this squad with the talent of Danny McGuire, he made 1 start and 8 from bench in 2002, he was born in Dec 1982. So was 19 nearly 20 by end of season.

If you want 1 example of a guy overplayed when young, look at Sam Burgess, best player of his generation, 2 knackered shoulders by 21, finished at 30, can't even play golf at moment.

As for the game being more intense 15/20 years ago, I guess it's impossible to measure, but when I watch old matches, there is far more room and defences are not as strong as now IMO, nor are players. Training, nutrition, etc always improves in every sport.

I hope to see more of the likes of Holroyd this year but he had a fairly tough time at Fev and for now I'd expect more championship than SL is the best way to progress in 2020.

As for a guy like Lees, he looks a hard case but it's a lot easier coming on either with or after Walmsley, Thompson and LMS as 4th prop than for any young Leeds prop who may have Donaldson trying his best to cover a pseudo prop role.

You can't just play kids.

You can't just go out and buy a squad full of players, the salary cap doesn't allow it.

You need to blend the best youngsters with decent senior pros, a small number of which need to be top quality.

So you are all correct.

The blend is getting better but isn't quite there yet.

I’m astounded you think this way. There is a debate to be had over quality but it’s clearly obvious the players are bigger and faster than they were. You may not have the fast wingers anymore but there’s a reason for that. The Mark Calderwoods and Scott Donalds of the past would never manage today with having to do the grunt work that is required of wingers today.

Ben Jones who was (don’t know if he still is) part of the conditioning team has done or been part of a few different studies that show the increasing size, muscle mass and muscle soreness of both League and Union players. Not to mention of course the number of injuries has clearly increased over the last 20 years.

As mentioned by others, take a look back at some games from 2001-2007 when the majority of the golden generation plus a few others like Watkins made their debuts. The defences are nowhere near as quick or as powerful or dominant in the tackle as they are now. Plus the players look smaller.

Also just to build on what was mentioned previously in that the golden generation were actually eased in to the first team:

Sinfield - debut age 16/17 but only made 4 appearances over 2 years. Then was only when he was 18/19 that he was played more consistently.

McGuire - debut age 18, only makes 3 appearances that season. Next season just makes 9 appearances. It’s not until 2003 when McGuire is 20 that he plays consistently.

Burrow - debut age 18. 11 starts 7 bench. Plays consistently next season.

JJB - debut age 18. Makes 6 appearances over 3 years before being used more consistently at age 20/21

Not part of our academy but interesting nonetheless:
Peacock - debut age 21
Leuluai - debut age 21
Webb - debut age 21
Cuthbertson - debut age 21


The only one there that really bucks the trend is Burrow.

The lads we've had in over the last few seasons are the ones who generally get more stick than anyone. Sutcliffe, Handley, oledski and Smith took a fair amount of criticism over that last year or so, despite being much vaunted as greatest player ever by the bring in the kids brigade

Sutcliffe and Handley were nothing more than average youngsters, never had any big claims about them. It was a surprise they got opportunity over others.

Smith was held back by the stupidity of our previous coach, who had an obsession in making everyone a prop. This despite all coaches in game at all levels believing that Smith should have started development at stand off to develop his handling skills further first.

This is where proper development takes a priority and seems missed by people obsessed with defending a club move. There is an “inbetween” in development, and is something continually stated by those “bring in the kid brigade” you speak of. Key is the right coach, belief, and the ability to lead.

Forget about Cam Smith. He's signing for Tigers in the summer.

Nah, it's Matty Smith you're getting...

We'll see

That must mean we are getting something better out of this deal