Quality half,needs quality forwards springs to mind.

The difference is McGuire has never run a team on his own for any length of time. Soward has. Soward also has a very good kicking game. When he's off he's very off, but if he's on his game he's very good. I'm not saying Soward is the messiah but he'd be a perfect foil for one of our other halfbacks IMO.

It should be pointed out that Soward's unlikely to be on much at the Broncos, and is probably just playing this year to keep fit and get experience on the coaching side.

What do they in say in Super League,he'll rip the championship up..Another who hasn't,and you think he's fit for Leeds..No wonder you are where you are..

Yawn. Soward didn't join the Broncos as part of a multi year deal to get them promoted. He joined them as he enjoyed time away from Sydney in his last brief stay, and he's probably enjoying keeping fit in relatively low-key games whilst he works out where he'll be next year. Will you still be calling him out if he signs for Leigh if you get promoted, or will he suddenly become the best 6 since John Woods?

We do have quality in the forwards, looking at our numbers we made the 3rd highest most metres so we were able to get downfield (surprising because we didn't complete too many sets and had to do a lot of defending.)

Garbutt has made more metres per game than any other prop in the league at 130m+, Galloway gets decent amounts each week. Ferres (despite his flaws of penalties and poorly judged offloads) has given us 100m+ games most of the time he's played which we didn't get from JJB, Ablett or Delaney.

Singleton had a sloppy period earlier in the year great red but is coming back well and whilst Cuthbertson hasn't hit last season's heights he's still a threat that attracts defenders.

I'm personally quite happy with our props and think Mullally can improve now we have a proper hooker (though he ran ok on Saturday but understandably looked rusty).

One issue granted is the defensive side of a few of those forwards, but that has nothing to do with "a half needs quality forwards" as that is clearly said in regards to attacking.

If your forwards can't defend effectively you concede a heap of points - which is what has happened to Leeds this year. You then spend less time with the ball which compounds an already challenging position.

All our forwards have significant defensive frailties and things will continue to be an issue unless that is addressed through individual; development and team structure. There is a reason Leeds have shipped so many points and it has nothing to do with how many metres our forwards make.

No point having a star half back if he never gets the opportunity to shine because he is stood behind the posts watching conversions

Sorry Sal but i only go off what i see with my own eyes and what i saw in some of those mid season games especially, was half assed efforts and players not playing for the coach throwing the towel in especially when games were gone early in the second half. It has been an awful season but players the likes of Ablett, Ferres, Garbutt, Cuthbertson etc... don't go from being able to shut down the best in the league to conceding 50 against Cas at home and virtual turnstiles at Warrington.

Cuthbertson
Segeyaro
Garbutt
Ablett
Ward
JJB

Galloway
Singleton
Delaney
Burrow

You telling me if we could get something like that pack on the field for long periods next year we couldn't become a much better unit and compete with the top sides again?

we did on Saturday and part timers Angus ragged

Does anyone really care about this mickey mouse middle 8s? as long as we get the 2 points each thats all that matters now, no bonus prizes for nilling a london or Batley to 70 points. i guess the players are doing just enough to see them through games against the likes of London. and without meaning to be disrespectful, sides we know we have far more quality than. The quicker we get enough points on the board and can forget about this sorry season the better imo.

There's no point over analyzing things too much. We've been woeful at times. Our defence started to look something like when lowes came back, and our go forward started to look better when segeyaro came in.

The jurys still out on next season until we know for sure the situation in key positions.

We have had holes up the middle all season. The amount of game time Achurch has had has contributed, as has not having a hooker defending close to the ruck, and the likes aIf Galloway and JJB seeming to rush forward but unable to deal with anything moving sideways. On Saturday the Fev hooker wandered through a tired defence unable to even face up or react. Does anyone honestly believe with JP on the pitch that would have happened, or that if it did he wouldn't have ripped into everyone behind the sticks?
Ablett looks shot, Delaney has 15 minutes a month in him, Galloway can't move sideways, Garbutt carries well but is hardly "agile", Cuthbertson looks like he wants to be somewhere else (he was also unable to cover the middle on Saturday but the hole was down to Achurch spectating again - the guy should pay admission like all the rest). I also thought Segeyaro was sluggish and is likely to be gone anyway. We will also have to cross fingers that Ward has no lasting effects. No way he'll have his pre-injury work rate from the start of next season.
It's not looking great.

We do need to threaten more with the ball though. One thing we do have are strike players, a good half that puts us in the right parts of the pitch and a coach who will play to our strengths could make a dramatic improvement. Let's be honest, the rest of SL is rubbish. Even if we simply put some attacking structure in place and went into every game looking to outscore the opposition we would be looking at top 4 next season.

This

There are some practical issues with our defence - who defends where and some individual problems. But if you look at our 'highlights' its hard not to agree with Biff that an appalling lack of effort both individually and collectively is more to blame for most of the year. When we get knocked out in the CC with a ragged defensive line after 20 minutes against a team that's also near bottom of SL its hard to look past anything other than effort. Same with our destruction by Cas, the loss to KR at home, the three floggings in a row later in the season etc etc. That all suggests issues way beyond individual lack of mobility.

I think you also have to look at the when and where we have been defending aswell as the how. In Rugby League attack really is the best form of defence, and it contributes greatly to your defence.

Perhaps there is a lack of mobility in the defence but that would be less of an issue if we werent defending so much. We have made a huge amount more tackles than in previous years because of losing silly ball, atrocious last tackle plays and an inability force repeat sets.

So not only are we defending more, but defending more in bad areas of the pitch.

Saying that, i think i dont think we are that poor defensively. We only conceded 99 points more this year than last, and considering 144 of those points came in a three game period, thats not too bad.

its clear that our problem has been getting over the line, we have scored 350 fewer points than last year. More than 15 points per game. For me thats down to 3 things,
individuals who havent played as well as they can (Watkins, Hardaker, at times Hall and Sutcliffe),

Injuries (Ward is probably our only mobile 2nd row and has been out all year, Mcguire and Burrow have been in and out all year, Briscoe took a long time out not to mention the general injuries we have suffered at times)

and the changes we have gone through not only last off-season but throughout the season too, we ended last year with a spine of Hardaker, McGuire, Sinfield, Burrow with Aiton Sutcliffe and Lilley

We started this year with Hardaker, McGuire, Sutcliffe, Burrow, with Lilley

and are finishing it Sutcliffe, McGuire, Lilley, Segeyaro, with Burrow and occasionally Hallas.

Agree with that on defence Smokey. But at no stage during most of the regular season did it seem as though the side were knuckling down and playing percentages given our attacking shortcomings. With a stuttering attack its vital that you use your defence as a form of attack - kick to the corners and try to force errors. Our defensive line often looked shot within 10 minutes of kick off and some of the individual efforts would make an amateur team wince with embarrassment.