Come on, we will likely only have 3 home games and it won't be all against those 3 teams you mention for maximum doomsday effect. Yes if London or Batley are one of the home games then the corporate packages would be a difficult sell but that comes with the territory of a bad season. That said it could easily be Bradford, Huddersfield,Wakey and Leigh at home, all of which would pull a healthy crowd in games where something is at least at stake as William rightly pointed out.

Anyway, as said the biggest downer from middle 8s would be selling season tickets and packages for 2017 and retaining the fair weather brigade.

4 Middle 8 games @ 11k avg. total = 44k
3 Super 8 games @ 15 avg. total = 45k

No real difference and that's just a guess at some average totals as who we'd play is yet to be known.

So really a dip in corporate packages alone which I can't see on its own be that significant a drop in cash. Again you'd be selling for 4 games instead of 3 so even if you get less per game you have an extra game to make up the loss.

I would suggest "keeping the players happy" should be somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities, given it's the players who are primarily responsible for the results that determine which comp you're playing in.

And you don't think that is the exact oppossite to what we have built the previous decade of success on?

Some players are not producing, that is clear for all, the primary responsible though is not down to them, but the club and its coaches the problem there. I am sure the players are not inventing injuries.

The point is getting the right people there - to do that you have to have a game that interests them - not sure Leeds v Batley would make me want to spend my corporate £. Much rather spend it on YCC 20 over game - much more likely to get the people I want to that?

I'm not convinced the Middle 8's would be a succession of large victories for Leeds. They've not convinced me this season they are capable of large victories against say Huddersfield, Wakefield, Hull KR or Salford. I'd also expect Leigh and Bradford to treat the fixtures as their Cup Final. Perhaps a couple of large victories against a Batley, Fev or Halifax at best?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make regarding playing 3 games against teams Leeds have already played twice? Is that somehow more interesting than playing 7 games against teams they've already played twice or 3 times?

And what is meaningful about playing 7 games when the possibility of earning a Top 4 place at the end of 30 Rounds is a remote possibility or even a mathematical impossibility? Wouldn't the Middle 8's be more meaningful and much more interesting a prospect in comparison?

Is there a more meaningless and unappetising scenario than scraping into the Top 8 with little to no prospect of advancing into the Top 4?

I'd also suggest that Leeds in the Middle 8's would be a huge boost to a division still finding its feet.

alan tait never invented injuries gotcha

we may have a mix of some not bothered enough and some too eager

Make your mind up. Players are either injured, or not producing.

The first one isn't the player's fault. The second one definitely is. I've yet to see a coach make a poor read in defence, make daft handling errors or drop off a tackle on a half-back four stones lighter than you are, but I saw plenty of Leeds players doing both on Friday. That's not a coaching issue, that's a player performance and attitude issue.

Both of which are a coach's job to make sure are not a problem.

And both of which are entirely out of his control once the player crosses the line.

Unless we're saying McDermott coaches Achurch to hide, or Ablett to continually make poor reads?

Quite right and if the coach is unable to field 17 players who are not totally fit then dropping players that are not performing is also not an option. Young forwards that are not physically or mentally ready will also be classed as not fit.

The coaching off the field should minimise such things on the field. That's their job. I don't remember Ablett's poor reads being such a big problem before. If they are now, it's up to the coach to recognise what's going wrong and take steps to change it.

In my opinion, it's nonsense to say that once the players are on the pitch the coach has no responsibility for what's going on. That's why certain coaches make such a difference.

Agreed. Surely they go through video and Mac points out to certain players their shortcomings and what improvements he wants to see in coming weeks.If he has addressed this off the field to them and the players still fail to address on it, then its down to the coach to take action and the responsibility then falls squarely on his shoulders, especially if he is still allowing these players to make the same mistakes week on week by selecting them.

I may be wrong, but evidence so far this year to me points to a coach who is just going in with a wing and a prayer from game to game and that his trusted old guard of years gone by will dig him out of the hole we are in and not much is being done about things off the field.