If you thought we were awful against saints then I'm happy to take that level of awful that gives two points each week.

As for youth, I agree the players mentioned have a long way to go but that wasn't the point. The key reason we haven't developed many top players recently is because the group that consisted of Sinny, mags, burrow etc... have been so good that those coming through couldn't kick them out. Now that has changed and McD is now bringing through the players I mentioned.

I actually think he is steering the ship well overall. Is he doing a perfect job? Of course not, but surely, surely, he has done enough to earn support at this point. And quite frankly if you don't think he does then I wonder what you want.

If that is the standard the top teams are going to put out the sport has some serious issues - win or lose.

We have been crying out for hooker for years we also have been looking for a centre we have had to import wingers, full backs, props because we cannot produce/develop the quality we need

On McDermott it is difficult to know wether the wins were down to him or the quality of player he inherited - I suppose time will tell

The reality is probably a bit of both which is how it should be.

This is where some fans opinions will always differ. I would hate to watch that level of performance every week even if we were winning every week. We, and others, should be looking to push and improve the standard, not fall into line with the lower quality of teams (even if this would give the appearance of a highly competitive division).

As for the rest of your post I mostly agree, Mac does deserve some more time, at the moment the players are not playing to their capabilities.

On youth, while I personally think we have too many Aussies, I do think Mac hasn't done too bad at giving the kids a go, I think Ward and Singo would've come through anyway, but Walters and Keinhorst have really come out of the blue to be decent squad players along with Handley.

He has also stuck with Sutty and to an extent Lilley, two very young halves, now we are struggling people are pointing going "Sutty is not good enough, he's not a half." Now I would bet if Mac had have gone out and signed say a Campese, those same people would be up in arms about Mac not sticking with the youth who showed up so well at times last year.

Spot on. Find it funny when people say he wouldn't have been successful without certain players.....well yeah pretty much any coach falls under that category. Do people think without Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, Schmeichel, Ronaldo etc. that Alex Ferguson wins what he did at Man United.

Most peoples opinions that the level of superleague as a whole is getting worse, could it be because most superleague teams have british coaches and they cannot improve the next generation to the next level require. Hodgson at Rovers was a ok hooker goes to aus ,England's 1st choice. Cooper at Warrington ,fringe player goes to aus , now playing for England . Just a thought.

very much so but players will only get to a certain level, once they are at the top of that level and they can just do enough to get by they stagnate, Watkins is becoming a case in point.To excel and become the best you have to compete against the best on a regular basis, The truth may hurt but that is the truth SL is simply becoming too mediocre across the board, the star quality is all but gone.sad but true.

The thing is with mac he has got his favourites and not so favourites ie kirke ans mcshane (who would walk into our 17 at the moment) If the rumours are true about Garbutt and Singo all he needs to do is upset a few more and it could be game over.

How were we meant to stop JP leaving? It's the mark of the man that he wanted to leave and test himself at a lower level club rather than just slip into the role at the treble winners.

I understand your point about the academy but the question is why is that the case? I would venture it's because we have been wildly successful over the last decade which makes it very difficult to promote kids. If you look at youngsters who have left us in that time and are having good careers it shows our youth system is fine. Wigan, as your example have had a relatively quiet ten years and we're playing catch up so they had to focus on promoting youth. I agree they have done it well but that doesn't mean we have been poor, we have just been in a different place.

The Brisbane v NQC was a great game - Roberts is one hell of a centre