Who was it who kept Jamie Lyon completely in check in the 2012 WCC? Can't remember if it was Watkins or another of Juan's "defensively suspect" backs Zak Hardaker.

The discussion was focused on defence - my opinion on Watkins defensive skills were not made on the basis of any one game in isolation.



Leeds' defensive 'left centre' opposite Lyon in that game was probably McGuire rather than either starting centres. Watkins was offensively opposite Matai - defensively opposite whoever was playing left second-row.

The discussion goes where the discussion goes, whether you like it or not. I was agreeing with Andy.

I don't share your view about Watkins defence. Not sure what the relevance of what NRL opponents may or may not do if he theoretically played in that competition but as you introduced this hypothetical into the discussion it was valid of Andy to reference the time he faced off against probably the best the NRL has to offer in that position.

In that game, and Leeds WCC games (again real life opposition from the NRL) I've seen no evidence to suggest any Australasian opponents mercilessly targetted Watkins or that he struggled in any way.

So, we have the actual real life examples of NRL teams facing Kallum Watkins and you opinion of what NRL teams might do when facing Watkins.

Seeing as someone mentioned Manly and we are talking defending Watkins went through "Shoulders" Matai like he was an 8yr old girl for his try at HQ yet not much defensive frailty was seen coming the other way!

Watkins defence in the NRL would be analagous in many respects to what is currently being demonstrated on a weekly basis by Sam Tomkins.

Citing highly selective examples from pre-season WCC warm-up fixtures is right up there in the desperation stakes as judging the quality of a player by the number of SL rings in his possession.


Regards,
Ian Kirke.

I'd need to review those specific games for examples of wrong options taken but I've noted SL sides exploiting this weakness and IMO so did McDermott when moving Watkins to forth man in on the right. There he has more tackles to make but fewer difficult decisions. It's not that he can't tackle it's the number of times he acted against the defensive unit that was the problem.

Watkins SOMETIMES defends 4th in. He and Sinfield alternate, as does McGuire switching between left side and right. So he still defends 2nd in,

Also 3rd in and 4th in at different times.

And that's sometimes a consequence of an evolving defensive system. It used to be that defences would advance a few yards together and then hold and wait for the attack to come. Now with more and more dummy runners being used by attacks it's often better to do a bit of a blitz style defence, which is why you'll sometimes see a defender advance very quickly to try and shut a play down or disrupt it before it can get into full flow.
That, less structured type of defence can lead to more changes in defensive position (2/3/4 in etc).

Watkins has improved his defence and is now a good defender. The outside centre position is one of the hardest to defend as you can be left exposed by those defending inside. Like a good fullback a centre should not allow an attacker to come inside him unless he is well covered by teammates.

The key to good defence out wide is to work together as a unit.

Watkins frequent failing - and it was still on show in the match V Australia in the World Cup mentioned above by Gilder and others - is that he has a habit of rushing out of the line. That maybe deemed neccesary when short on numbers but if you don't come up with either man and ball or at least disrupt the ball you are leaving holes for others to exploit. In the above match Watkins did it twice in the opening twenty minutes - on the first Cronk opted to kick for Boyd when a little lofted pass would have given Inglis a two on one V Charnley and on the second Slater failed to deliver a quick but straight-forward pass which either Inglis or Boyd would have likely finished.

Jonathan Davies and Brian Noble both commented on the breakdown in defensive structure - "Got away with it there" was I think the end summary after the explanation from the former legendary League centre and International coach combination but what would they know.

In that game Watkins wasn't alone as Cudjoe also jumped inside (which Hall then had to follow) allowing Brett Morris a score in the corner early in the second-half and on other occasions Watkins stayed in line and the defence did it's job efficiently. That just adds to the frustration when he or Jones-Buchanan do it regularly for Leeds or when Sinfield did it in the last minute V New Zealand in the semi-final.

I seem to recall pointing out that Hall rushed out of defence in the WCC match and missed the tackle which led to a try that you were blaming on someone else. He did the same in the World Cup match against NZ which cost us a try. Sometimes he gets lucky and intercepts but often its a missed tackle.

With regard to Watkins you are having to go back more than a year to denegrate him. If as you say this is a frequent failing perhaps some more up to date examples would be convincing.

Jonathan Davies was perhaps even more a legendary stand off, full back than centre.

I'd be interested to know how many of these issues being raised about Watkins refer to games where he was partnered on the right hand side of the defence with Sutcliffe last year?

A number of times last season Sutcliffe shot out of the line and left yawning gaps either side of him for opponents to stroll through. From memory, I'd certainly have him down as a more frequent offender than Watkins in that regard.

Watkins looks like the talent of a generation when it comes to threequarters in this country.

How very TVOC half empty to focus on perceived defensive weaknesses from years gone by.

I assume they've been cured this year, btw,because if he is such a weak spot teams simply haven't been getting any joy there if you look at our points conceded.

Quite right, and if you watch the Saints breakaway try from the weekend you can see Watkins is 4th man in next to sinfield (3rd) , about to make the tackle on Soliola when the ball is flung out wide leaving Mcguire exposed to Percivil at centre.

McGuire came in to tackle Soliola with Sinfield for some reason leaving a massive gap for Percivil, it was all far too easy for Saints

I'm sure it will be one of the main talking points during the video session this morning