I have a certain nostalgia for the RL of my youth. It's easy to remember the great players, and the likes of Schofield, Hanley, Crooks etc, and matches against that great Wigan team and the wonderfully savage Widnes pack stick in the mind.

But there was always some utter dross around. Wakefield and Bradford, and even London, are no worse than the Barrow side I watched getting 90 points stuck on it at Headingley in the old Championship, for example. The game wasn't in rude financial health and the toilets at more than one ground were a wall and a gutter...

Things weren't always awesome in t'olden days...

I'd love someone to come along and tell me exactly what it was that made things "better" in the old days?

Playing standards? Hardly. Watch a game from the late 70s or early 80s back again, in full rather than just edited highlights. It's slow, it lacks the physical intensity (other than a wide range of cheap shots) of the modern game or the handling skills for that matter.

Facilities? Errm, yeah. Those old toilets with no roof at Station Road and Derwent Park were ace, weren't they? Crumbling terraces, ancient stands with uncomfortable seats, obstructed views. Give me that every day over a brand new, clean, well appointed stadium.

Competitiveness? Really? In the last 13 seasons before the switch to summer, only four teams won the title (Wigan, Widnes, Hull KR, Halifax). The top flight has always had some teams who were whipping boys getting regular large beatings from the top clubs. There has never been some mythical era in which the bottom team and top team were evenly matched.

A competitive international arena? Yes, because GB's results against Australia and New Zealand were markedly different from what are they now - getting close to the Aussies, before losing the games that count. Winning at home to the Kiwis, struggling away.

So what is it that the nostalgics are harking back to?

I haven't read any comments on this thread about how things were better in the past.

I'm away in Birmingham all week next week and will possibly be staying next to a Vue cinema, which is good I thought, for one evening at least I may pay Vue to go and watch one of their films, maybe buy some popcorn and a Ki-Ora or two.

Then I looked at the list of films they are showing and depsite them having a hundred or so screens there is nothing that I fancy watching, absolutely nothing, and I've watched their previews to try and persuade myself that any of them could be worth a £10 punt.

So by your logic what I should really do is pay to go to Vue at Star City next week and just watch anything, anything at all, the film is irrelevant as long as I am handing over my money to Vue in the vain hope that at some undefined point in the future they may have a film showing that I actually want to watch.

I'm going to be in Birmingham quite a lot over this summer, how many weeks worth of shoite films do you think I'll have to watch under your theory of loyalty before a good one comes around ?

Which begs the question; Do you believe things were no better in the past?

If you believe they were then I can start to understand (but not entirely agree with) your negativity.
If you believe they weren't then the logic is simple:
Premise: Rugby League today is crap.
Premise: Things weren't better in the past.
Conclusion: Rugby League is and was always crap.

All of which makes me wonder why you ever got interested in the sport at all.

No but we've seen posters complain that the competition has gone downhill/backwards hence 'better in the past'. Also no one said the competition was in great shape but that didn't stop yourself or Sal accusing people had their heads stuck in the sand about the condition of the sport.

As for the cinema story. No, nobody would expect you to pay to watch films you didn't want to watch......

.......but neither would anybody expect someone to go on a movie forum week after week after week and complain about their not being anything worth watching there, or look down on those who do fancy going to see something even if it's not to someone else's taste.

I would never suggest that anyone go to Stab City. Ever.

Furthermore, I am not altogether persuaded that, when it comes to loyalty, the analogy between the Rugby League club of your home city and a chain of corporate cinemas will stand much scrutiny.

By extension however, you are more likely to be moved to complain when your RL trips don't enthral you.

I also don't think people should feel honour bound to pay for a product they're not enjoying. It's just your analogy I disagree with.

That and the location of your chosen hotel.

Well I haven't actually chosen it yet, its either a Holiday Inn, a Hilton or a city centre apartment - depends what is available on Tuesday morning when I get my hands on the company credit card.

Seen as their is a lot of debate of how the quality has dropped in the SL on the back of Leeds easy win over a poor Bradford side lets look at some of the line-ups teams offered at Headingley 10 years ago in 2004 when Bradford were reigning champs and Leeds/Bradford was still a big deal and we had 12 teams and only 6 making the playoffs.

BRADFORD
Michael Withers, Tevita Vaikona, Paul Johnson, Shontayne Hape, Lesley Vainikolo
Robbie Paul, Paul Deacon
Joe Vagana, Aaron Smith, Stuart Fielden, Jamie Peacock, Rob Parker, Jamie Langley
SUBS - Leon Pryce, Stuart Readon, Richard Moore, Paul Anderson

CASTLEFORD
Damien Gibson, Dean Ripley, Motu Tony, Darren Rodgers, Paul Mellor
Brad Davis, Luke Robinson
Craig Greenhill, Ryan Hudson, Nathan Sykes, Michael Smith, Lee Harland, Ryan Clayton
SUBS - Jon Hepworth, Tommy Saxton, Wayne Godwin, Andy Lynch

HUDDERSFIELD
Ben Cooper, Hefin O'Hare, Stuart Donlan, Julian Bailey, Marcus St.Hiliare
Brandon Costing, Sean Penkywicz
Mick Slater, Philip Joseph, Jim Gannon, Iain Morrison, Matthew Whitaker, Paul Smith
SUBS - Chris Nero, Stuart Jones, Eorl Crabtree, Jon Grayshon

HULL FC
Shaun Briscoe, Colin Best, Richard Whiting, Michael Eagar, Gareth Raynor
Paul Cooke, Richard Horne
Paul King, Richard Swain, Ewan Dowes, Paul McNicholas, Shayne McMenemy, Peter Lupton
SUBS - Alex Wilkinson, Andy Bailey, Liam Higgins, Nick Scruton

LONDON
Paul Sykes, Jon Wells, Rob Jackson, Mark O'Halloran, Nigel Roy
Radney Bowker, Dennis Moran
Steve Trindall, Neil Budworth, Steele Retchless, Joe Mbu, Andrew Hart, Jim Dymock
SUBS - Tom Haughey, Andrew Brocklehurst, Mitch Stringer, Francis Stephenson

SAINTS
Paul Wellens, Ade Gardner, Darren Albert, Lee Gilmour, Dom Feaunati
Willie Talau, Jason Hooper
Nick Fozzard, Keiron Cunningham, Keith Mason, Mark Edmondson, Maurie Fa'asavula, Jon Wilkin
SUBS - James Roby, Mike Bennett, Ricky Bibey, Andy Bracek

SALFORD
Jason Flowers, Nathan McAvoy, Anthony Stewart, Kevin McGuinness, Andy Kirke
Martin Moana, Joel Craine
Neil Baynes, Malcolm Alker, Paul Highton, Sean Rutgerson, Scott Naylor, Chris Charles
SUBS - Andy Johnson, Simon Baldwin, Tim Hartley, Andy Coley

WAKEFIELD
Mark Field, Justin Ryder, Jason Demetriou, Sid Domic, Michael Wainwright
Jamie Rooney, Ben Jefferies
Matthew Blake, David March, Michael Korkidas, David Solomona, Jamie Field, Rob Spicer
SUBS - Paul Handforth, Mark Applegate, Oliver Elima, Duncan MacGillivray

WARRINGTON
Darryl Cardiss, Ian Sibbit, Brent Grose, Paul Noone, Dean Gaskell
Lee Briers, Nathan Wood
Paul Wood, Jon Clarke, Mark Hilton, Mike Wainwright, Darren Burns, Mike Forshaw
SUBS - Gary Hulse, Mark Gleeson, Jerome Guisset, Warren Stevens

WIDNES
Deon Bird, Nicky Royle, Aaron Moule, Adam Hughes, Chris Giles
Simon Finnigan, Stephen Myler
Davis Mills, Shane Millard, Julian O'Neill, Andy Hay, Troy Wozniak, Daniel Frame
SUBS - Craig Weston, Stephen Rowlands, Steve McCurrie, Andy Hobson

WIGAN
Kris Radlinski, Chris Melling, Martin Aspinwall, Kevin Brown, Brett Dallas
Danny Orr, Luke Robinson
Quentin Pongia, Terry Newton, Craig Smith, Danny Tickle, Gareth Hock, Sean O'Loughlin
SUBS - Stephen Wild, Mark Smith, Danny Sculthorpe, Terry O'Connor

.....................

How many of those teams are better than what they have today?

Bradford is an obvious one, also London and Wakey look a bit better but hardly great line-ups that would trouble the big teams in 2014.

Would you be more worried facing those Hudds, Warrington, Salford and Castleford teams than todays counterparts?

Others seem fairly even to what they have now, a 'best of' team made up of from 2004 & 2014 line-ups would be roughly split 50/50 IMO and that's being generous to 2004.

How many names do you not recognise/not remember in there?
How many of those benches look worrying to you?
Would the 2014 Leeds team be in a much different position had they come up against them teams?

Uncompetitive compared to when?

When Wigan were crushing everyone pre-SL?
When Saints & Bradford were crushing everyone?
2004, when Leeds won the league by a record margin?
2007, when Saints were unbeaten for most of the season (bar one game at the end )

Or further back, when rugby was proper rugby, played by true athletes (like Steve Pitchford) in the snow & in front of 3000 proper fans who paid full price every match?

On the other hand, doesn't some of the points this smokescreen raises suggest that the question "why is Super League so uncompetitve today?" is too narrowly framed? If it has always, or at least for a fairly long stretch, been this uncompetitive then the solutions probably need to address deeper issues than is the case with a short-term contemporary drop in quality.

I see it as an issue of failing to progress rapidly enough rather than going backwards. For instance, I think the product in terms of its skill and athleticism is far greater than when I started watching a semi-pro sport. Both skill and athleticism lag a bit behind the NRL, as Mr Eve is fond of (slightly unnecessarily) reminding us.

Crowds are also higher than when I first started going. Not just at Headingley, but across the board. This makes me wonder where the alleged extra fans that some posters here, and the good Dr at Salford insist would turn up if Sam Burgess was in Salford's team would come from. How many Wigan fans have stopped going because Sam Tomkins has left?

Slight digression, but it raises the question of what we're actually trying to fix and whether any of us really has a credible answer.

In short, if more people are turning up than when I were a lad, to watch a league which one of 4 or 5 teams might win (never the case when I were a lad) then could a large part of the problem lie not with the game itself but with the facts that a lot of us are getting older, more cynical, harder to enthuse and just generally miserable old gits?

Again, why are you comparing it to anything - are you happy that since the start of this season we have played in ten games involving nine SL teams where the opposition could compete equally ?

If not 10 then how many games were evenly matched, would three be a fair answer ?

If not three then why have seven of them been by a winning margin of 28 points or more, and six of them by a winning margin of 34 points or more (many more in a few cases).

Guilty as charged for the last allegation and whilst crowds at Headingley are still healthy-ish at around 12 to 13k for the less competitive games and 16k for the single competitive home game so far this season, they are not so healthy across the board, and nor are some teams finances.

I think this is a big reason that people keep looking down or our comp. as going backwards, with the constant comparisons to a competition we have not been near in my life time and are never likely to.They are that far ahead there is no point comparing, its like comparing the Premier League to the Championship, they will never become equal, or near equal and neither will NRL and SL.

I think in reality, things certainly have stagnated a bit for us quality wise the last few years.The stem of the flow of quality NRL recruits has all but stopped and the movement of our top English stars the other way hasn't helped.On the whole though the state of our game attendances wise and facilities wise is in greater health than 20-30 years ago.The league is winable for 4-5 teams which as stated elsewhere wasn't the case in the 80's and 90's.The top 8 system IMO has failed but atleast the RFL are now trying to address that.