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Thanks for the link. d040.gif

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Quote: Maverick Rhino "I'm not sure I would describe the "crouch - set - touch - engage" pantomime, followed by a blatant feed, as sophisticated or a spectacle, Rugby Union scrums are little different to those in League in terms of restarting the game, other than taking much longer.'"



The difference is its very very technical and therefore beyond our parochial minds icon_wink.gif

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Steve McNamara best be 'swotting' up on his Union attacking skills....

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Soon we will be dancing the Fandango FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB'S DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESS THEN I DONT KNOW WHAT IS. JAMIE PEACOCK:



Quote: Juan Cornetto "If mine are rose tinted then yours are Stevie Wonder's! I was brought up to be open minded thank goodness and the opinions expressed were about the two different games of rugby. It is unfortunate that you unable to rise above the class based history of the two sports to discuss the merits of modern day rugby of both codes.

Of course I am aware of the broken time payments history and the snobbery and the shamateurism and "boot money payments" that went on. I recall Ronnie Cowan telling me of when he first played for the Lions and he was shocked to find "taxi" money from Selkirk to the South of England in his boots after training.

The "tainting"was only one way of course in those days because League stood to gain from an open door policy and Union to lose.

However I also remember the League welcome that most Union signings received in their first season which was also only one way. Alun Rees Wales International stand off signing received a broken nose from a deliberate foul in his first game for Leeds. This welcome was typical through the years right up to the John Gallagher spear tackle. The recent BBC programe on Jonathan Davies showed a funny clip of him in the Widnes dressing room before his first RL game, I think, and his teammates were all around him stroking his nose and making comments as to how it would look after the game.

Times have moved on and the Luddites are in the minority. Union is now professional and has the money and on it's day offers good rugby skills and entertainment for followers of the handling game.'"

That dirty foul on Alun Rees ruined his Leeds career.I don't think it was his first game though,he was showing real promise up that two fisted smash by Holden of Oldham.He only played 36 games.sorry to go off track

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Quote: DoubleAone "You seem to be confusing competitive with combative. Didn't you read the link I provided.

I even watched an England RU match recently where the commentators were complaining of the 3 - 4 resets and the inevitable penalty at every set scrum.

I will happily settle for getting the ball back in play asap and watching real skill over technical brute force.

100% more live in-play per game is worth the sacrifice.

You will be saying the technical kicking aspect is far superior next.
You've missed the point.

Look at the stats that I provided, remove the lineouts and the scrum setting, add back the few seconds per scrum that a touching palms RL scrum takes to set up, and then ask yourself how many of those other items do not also apply to RL, then try and equate that to your references - is the figure still 100% more play ?

And yes, the competitive scrums ARE an attraction to some RU supporters especially those who have played the game as a forward, on the rare occasions when uncompetitive scrums are called in an RU game I've even seen some people complain loudly and then go to the bar because they have no further interest.

You may scoff and snort at that fact all you like but the truth is that its part and parcel of the game and it attracts support and sponsorship in greater numbers than the alternative of making the sport less competitive.

RL has always had an uphill battle trying to convince the public outside of the M62 that its the better product and that battle has been getting harder at every rule change designed to make the game quicker - don't you find that strange ?

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Quote: JerryChicken "You've missed the point.

Look at the stats that I provided, remove the lineouts and the scrum setting, add back the few seconds per scrum that a touching palms RL scrum takes to set up, and then ask yourself how many of those other items do not also apply to RL, then try and equate that to your references - is the figure still 100% more play ?

And yes, the competitive scrums ARE an attraction to some RU supporters especially those who have played the game as a forward, on the rare occasions when uncompetitive scrums are called in an RU game I've even seen some people complain loudly and then go to the bar because they have no further interest.

You may scoff and snort at that fact all you like but the truth is that its part and parcel of the game and it attracts support and sponsorship in greater numbers than the alternative of making the sport less competitive.

RL has always had an uphill battle trying to convince the public outside of the M62 that its the better product and that battle has been getting harder at every rule change designed to make the game quicker - don't you find that strange ?'"


What !! These enlightened supporters of the superior code retreat to the bar if deprived of the Union scrum spectacle !!! They have no interest in the handling / running aspects of the game then ???

The link to the article I provided seems to suggest otherwise hence the recent rule changes introduced to their scrums in an effort to increase the live in-play element,

You might find Union more competitive, but I just see mostly brute force which, has always, will appeal to the more simple minded. icon_mrgreen.gif

The sexist comment is rather typical of the southerners code IMHO.

(Union) Forward "play" LOL now that's really funny.

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As a long time player of both games they do both have merits. I love Union, but I think the scrums are a mess, and take up far too much of the game. When the ball is in play the game is fun to play, and can be very dynamic.

In terms of competitive I think this is the right word. the nature of the game means that two teams can be mismatched but with a few decent players in certain positions can compete in a game by slowing it down. That does not exist in League, there is no hiding place.

This can give the impression that Union is a more interesting game because games are usually closer and therefore have tension. In league there are fewer really close games but when they are they are corkers.

A recent example being the Semis and Final weekends at the RLWC. One an a mismatch, and it resulted in the biggest margin of the tournament. The other semi was two good teams going at it hammer and tongs. However good that game was, the quality was not a jot on what Australia produced the following week, yet as a spectacle it was poor due to the one sided nature.

In short there are many way that people can get enjoyment through sport, and the two sports tend to provide different ways of getting that

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Quote: DoubleAone "Thanks for the link.
Think you have to consider what is time in play. Pro union adjudicators would suggest that the ball is not in play from the referees call of held until the actual PTB. Their argument would be that the union ruck is still in play. If you assume 300 tackles at 3 seconds from the shout of held until the PTB that is 900 seconds or 15 minutes.

I'm sure detailed analysis would change figures further.

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Quote: finglas "Think you have to consider what is time in play. Pro union adjudicators would suggest that the ball is not in play from the referees call of held until the actual PTB. Their argument would be that the union ruck is still in play. If you assume 300 tackles at 3 seconds from the shout of held until the PTB that is 900 seconds or 15 minutes.

I'm sure detailed analysis would change figures further.'"

What happens at the breakdown is key to both sports. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge taht doesn't know enough about either sport

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Quote: The Eagle "What happens at the breakdown is key to both sports. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge taht doesn't know enough about either sport'"


I agree, I am just arguing from a union perspective. At the breakdown in union the ball is in play and the defending team can compete for possession. At the breakdown in league the ball is not in play once the referee calls held and the defending team cannot compete for possession. Any union supporter looking at the stats offered above would immediately claim the figures were biased and therefore not worth consideration.

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Quote: finglas "I agree, I am just arguing from a union perspective. At the breakdown in union the ball is in play and the defending team can compete for possession. At the breakdown in league the ball is not in play once the referee calls held and the defending team cannot compete for possession. Any union supporter looking at the stats offered above would immediately claim the figures were biased and therefore not worth consideration.'"


Indeed, and if you wished to argue the point you could show that whenever a referee needs to stop play (for an injury elsewhere on the pitch for instance) he will stop it at the next PTB, which is where the game has naturally stopped in its momentum.

There is still only one set of stats which break down the stoppage times and explains how the measurements were made and that is the one that I linked to and I'll say it again, removing the two elements that are unique to RU still leaves a lot of stoppage time for both codes, more time in fact than any other RL stats are prepared to admit to.

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