I think we stand a better chance of that this time due to the number of Aussie based players we have at our disposal in the pack.
4 of the forwards fall into this category, 2 of whom are proven at international level backed up by the other 2 who play for one of the top 4 NRL sides & who are regulars in their pack particularly used as impact props. That is an area we've lacked in the past.
But our backs, talented as they are, suffer in comparison to the physicality of both the 'roos & the kiwis.

The last time we beat Australia with a novel game plan was in Melbourne in 1992. Unfortunately, we don't have any players equipped with the ability, the skill or the vision of a Garry Schofield to pull it off.

A hugely lopsided penalty count in England's favour along with a pack of forwards that can hold their own for more than 60 minutes is their only hope of pulling off a shock result. Insistence upon Aussie players having to wear authentic ball and chain accoutrements may also be deemed helpful to the cause.

I'm all for a game plan involving taking risks... that's why I'd have Hock on from the start.

Centres have me worried more than anything. Australia will rip them apart.

For once I agree totally with you.
Subject to fitness, Inglis will be one & they could perm any one from half a dozen even discounting Jamie Lyon.
For my part I'd love to see Michael Jennings partner GI.

Given that we can't really pick the 1992 side, as I'm not sure many of them are match fit, we have to try to come up with a plan based on what we've got. Unless you think just throwing the towel in before the start is the best option? Doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

I'd have Hock on, either from the start or off the bench. Again, he can offer something that none of our other players can (on the field I mean, to head off predictable quips).

I think Cudjoe and Watkins are the best centres we have at our disposal. I think they're both very good players. On paper they're probably out-gunned by their Aussie counterparts (I'll have to take the words of those of you who watch the NRL on that I'm afraid) but that's not a variable the coach can control. They're the best options we have.

Possibly, but by no means guaranteed. James Graham wasn't as effective for the Bulldogs this season playing from the start. I'm loathe to advance the theory that our forwards can match theirs because it's been claimed ad nauseam for the past two decades and I've still to witness any evidence to support such claims.


The two impact Burgii are being looked after at their club. There are several unsung non-Burgii heroes who are doing the essential pack work which tends to go unnoticed. I do wonder which England forwards shall be looking after them in the same way apart from Sam Bro?


Agree completely, and also in terms of skill and vision.

No truer word has been spoken.

I'm think Lyon is retired from rep footy. He'd be a shoe-in otherwise. He's got better with age! I think it'll be Inglis and Jennings at centre. Wouldn't be surprised to see Taufua as one of the wingers.

Since the modern game relies increasingly on physical prowess rather than subtlety & skill I fear that until we have an off season that matches that down under we will fall further & further behind our antipodean rivals.
The current proposals for the game over here - on the basis of my current understanding of them - will serve to accelerate our inferiority.
We need fewer higher intensity games to enthuse spectators not more mediocrity.

We should try to bomb him to death if we ever get near enough to their 40 metre line to do this but our chase (not Chase) had better be good 7 in big enough numbers to stop him before he builds up a head of steam.
He's the new Marcus Bai but probably bigger, faster & with a better step!
The new improved Bai.

Don't think we should try the 'Burrow off the bench' option.
I'd maybe try (in the group games) bringing Hardaker on at FB and pushing Tomkins up the halves in the 2nd half just like Leeds did with Harris & St Hilaire in the late 90's.

Burrow shouldn't get in the 17 IMO. If we're playing two hookers they should be Roby and McIlorum.

If we're to spring a surprise and beat the Aussies it means England need the game of their lives. We need to be very disciplined and make very few errors. I'm not sure SL has been the right stage for preparing some of the England players for the step up needed to beat Australia. Playing Hock is fair enough but he's good for some penalties and mistakes that will ease the pressure on the opposition. It's a gamble.

England's defence outwide will let them down against australia. The forward pack can hold it's own, the backline is decent. But give australia 6 tackles in englands 30m zone and 7 times out of 10 they'll post points.

The last time I can recall england holding their own in defence against australia, in a game which wasn't a dead rubber for the aussies was the opening of the 2004 tri nations at the etihad, last min craig wing try.

If you think back over all the games against the aussies since then, the games we've done ok have been dead rubbers for the aussies, almost all the other games we've been exposed defensively.

I wouldn't have hock on at all. Too prone to brain farts. England literally can't afford any stupid offloads or penalties gifting the aussies position. People saying they need to ''give it a go'' that's the wrong way to play it IMO. If england try and open up in attack australia will smother it and shut it down. They'll pick out the runners and be up their s forcing errors. As soon as we start giving australia easy field position we are on a hiding to nothing. England need to go in with the mentality that australia aren't going to get any sets in our red zone throughout the entire game. Of course australia can score long range, no problem. But as soon as they get near our line it's like a sieve. That means we need to [irelentlessly[/iget up the field, put in decent kicks, chase well and give no penalties away. The least we can do is try and take it the distance. You stay within less than 6 points and you never know how the ball might bounce or if one of aussies [ihuman beings[/i (they aren't super human) cracks and comes up with an error.

A player like Hock is going to f*ck that up. He'll pull an offload out of nowhere taking us 30 metres further up the field. His next contributios will be to piggy back them up the field with a dumb penalty, which they most likely score from. Unfortunatly the good and bad don't cancel each other out because of how clinical australia are. Hocks good and bad combine to f*ck us over.

Try and stay with them. Keep it tight. Go the distance.


That's been the mantra since the early 90s and it's got us precisely nowhere. If we're going to lose I'd at least rather do it with a bit of a bang.

"On the day I day I'll say 'at least I f**king tried', that's the only eulogy I need."

Meh.

The main thing we need is to have fire from the first minute, show belief we can win and dont stand off them and show too much respect which is what we have done in recent times.We have Just tried to play it too safe and watch them to see what they have got, and by the time we find out exactly what they do have we are 20 points down and its game over.

Points people have made about our backs being inferior to theirs and us being exploited out wide are bang on but we do have more potential out there to bag points than in recent years if the game plan can be executed.Our pack again on paper looks more than a match but i too will reserve judgment on them until it starts proving it can mix it on the pitch.