I'll freely acknowledge that it isn't much to go on, but then I'm not the one claiming my evidence is "incontrovertible" am I? Acknowledge that your opinions are just that and we have no more debate do we?



Probably not. It's all the information I have at my disposal, so I'll have to decide what to read into it. As will you. Neither of us can claim it to be "fact" though can we? I believe, subjectively, that I see evidence of a strong team unity in Leeds performance, tested (and thus revealed) more when the chips are down. I can't prove it, it's just my interpretation of what I see.



And you were the one who claimed that you had "incontrovertible" evidence, when you had nothing of the sort. Which you're now trying to deflect attention from. I wasn't addressing you with my earlier comment, I can choose to answer you if I want to. I have no deigned to do so. I'm not sure why I've done this.



I don't know, let's see shall we?



No, but then I don't think anyone at Leeds is "tossing it off" during the regular season. I personally think it has more to do with being unable to maintain peak form throughout the season and still carry it into the play-offs. There are no doubt various mechanisms for this, possibly including intensity of training etc.

See above for it only kicking in when the games really count. I do believe that those are the times when your team spirit and unity are most sorely tested.

Note my continued refusal to claim that any of this is "incontrovertible" but it's based on as much as your opinions are.

We have simply interpreted the same observations in two slightly different ways.

No i'm claiming it's an opinion that you're trying to pass off as fact as per usual.



Well if we're going down the 'missing key players' route may i point out the win/loss ratio without Danny Mcguire this year during the Regular Season, a player you like to mock.
With McGuire
Playing below par in a few fixtures (due to circumstances beyond their control), finishing 2nd and becoming champions on the back of that in a highly competitive league is distinctly more worthy than tossing it off throughout the regular season in an uncompetitive league, finishing 5th and just turning up for a couple of finals fixtures at the end.'"

Yes, I accept it was a 5 losing streak. They lost 6 out of 7, the only win being a SL esque score line of 26-22 against Manly.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Leeds too had players on rep duty in the mid season, and 5 extra games in the CC. Would also appear that Melbourne have a distinct advantage in terms of league games too, playing only 24. There cant be any excuses for below par performances with so few games, can there? Incidentally, how a league of 16 teams can only have 24 fixtures is somewhat strange, surely (as with our former crazy system of playing some teams 3 times per season) this is open to debate as to a true reflection of the seasons achievements?

Finally let's look at the final league tables for 2012. In SL there was a 16 point difference between top (Wigan - 42) and 8th (Wakefield - 26) Had Bradford not gone bust Hudds would have been 8th on 28 points. In the NRL there was a 12 point differential between 1st & 8th. Not that much difference in my book. Looking at each divisions whipping boy rabble, SL had an 11 point difference between 9th and bottom, NRL a 10 point difference. Again, very similar. The wooden spooners managed 12 points (SL) and 16 (NRL). I'll give you that one, Parramatta not quite as bad as Widnes.

So, perhaps the NRL isn't as superb as you'd have us believe. Leeds lost / chose not to bother in 12 games this season from a possible 37 (32%). Melbourne lost / chose not to bother in 7 from a possible 27 (26%). Again not too dissimilar

Actually Parramatta only won 6 games (12 points) - the other 4 were from Bye's. So they are as $h!t as Widnes.

Probably explains why Leeds targeted the signing of Willie Tonga.

A better and PROPER way to look at it would be

SL WHIPPING BOYS
With McGuire
P14 W13 L1....Win% 92.8%
Without McGuire
P7 W2 L5.....Win% 28.5%
DECREASE OF 64.3%

OTHER TEAMS REGULAR SEASON
With McGuire
P4 W1 L3 Win% 25%
Without McGuire
P2 W0 L2 Win% 0%
DECREASE OF 25%

OTHER TEAMS IN CUP/PLAYOFFS
With McGuire
P2 W2 L0....Win% 100%
P2 W1 L1....Win % 50%
DECREASE OF 50%

TOTAL
With McGuire
P20 W16 L4....Win% 80%
Without McGuire
P11 W3 L8....Win % 27.2%
DECREASE OF 52.8%

Anyway you look at it his absence negatively effects Leeds, but thanks for teeing up my point.

Staggering discussion. Trully staggering.

this is sport. Not just sport, rugby league. teams can turn up and beat other teams. It happens.

No player goes onto a rugby league field trying to lose - Leeds finished fifth because their squad isn't that deep in terms of TOP players. Come the play-offs, they were more or less at full strength.

If they save themselves for the big games, how come they've lost so many CC finals?

I've never known a sport where you can "toss it off" for 95% of the season then beat the best teams in the league playing so well.

It really does reek of bitterness. Just ride the wave!!! My team were one the best in the late 60's and early 90's (in terms of success) - Wakefield in the mid 60's, Wigan in the 90's, Saints in the late 90's to early 200's Leeds are having theirs from the early 2000's til now! It won't last for the next thousand years, but that's sport. Some teams are exceptional in some eras, and in given cicrumstances.

MEMO TO MR EVE aka MR SWIFTCORN


Having spent alot of time reading your constant depressing drivel over the last few years, it's quite clear that you are a very sad, lonely person. I find it quite amusing that you tend to 'disapear' after Leeds have won something, yet spend the rest of your life trying to put the Rhinos down in any way you see fit.
Im quite sure you realise how disliked you are on this forum, Im also sure you enjoy it as most of the garbage you post is done so to get a reaction. 99.9% of the posters on here are genuine Leeds fans(i'll let you guess at the 0.01%), so why don't you do us all a favour and jog on to the pies board I think you'll fit in perfectly over there. One thing though you need to change your user name (again) I think KEYBOARD WARRIOR fits you like a glove!!

Chomp
Guffaw
Etc etc

How the once mighty have fallen.

Or he could call himself "W B Rabble"