To be fair i don't think we've ever been fast starters in games even going back to the beginning of this last decade of success. We didn't really win games from showing more intensity or fight than the oppostion, more simply by being better skill wise and tactically. With McDermott not being as good as Tony Smith the area of tactically has dropped dramacitally especially in defence, and the improvement of the likes of Wigan, Warrington, Catalans compared to when Saints were the only real competition we had means we can't get away with easing into games and not hitting top gear until 30-40 mins at best. So many teams focus so strongly on the first 20 mins nowadays that we always seem to be playing catch up in a lot of games.

Yet again we played like we were relying so heavily on certain players again (Sinfield, Burrow, Peacock, JJB, McGuire when fit), it's almost like school level rugby when you get a few lads taking on all the responsibilty and the others at times seem to be making up the numbers or waiting on the main guys to do something. The only way you can beat the better teams is from at least 10-12 of your starting 17 standing up to be counted. I know every team has its key men but usually they should have a strong willing and ready supporting cast,

Personally i said earlier in the year that i've seen enough reoccuring flaws in McDermott's coaching that i don't ever see him being able to get us into a top 2 position however long he's at the club and whoever he manages to sign and that 3rd will probably be the best we could reach under him. However GH is a big supporter of his, probably more so than any over coach Leeds have had in his period at the club so he'll definately be here in 2013 and the best we can hope for is a new face added to the coaching staff that will improve things especially defensively.

Completely agree, we need putting out of our misery, and there's a very realistic possibility that Wakefield could do this. The back end of this season gives me the same vibes as the back end of 2010, which ultimately led to McClennan leaving. Something's not right, but exactly what that is remains unknown. I don't think simply changing the coach (to who?) will be the answer, stinks of player power to me

Hauraki & Griffin were very poor yesterday, Hauraki is not super league standard and Griffin despite starting ok for Leeds now has no impact on the game when he comes on.

On the other hand Peacock was the best player on the pitch yesterday.

Now I'm no statto, but if you look back at where we have finished over the period from 2007 to now, and compare the number of games won during the regular season, and the number of points conceded, it becomes glaringly obvious that it's not the number of points you score so much as the number of points you concede that determines league placing. In '07, '08 and '09 we conceded less than 500 point per season at between 15 and 18 per game average, and finished either top or second. in '10, '11 and this season, we conceded over 550 points per season (this year 662) and averaged between 21 and 25 per season. In each of these years our points for ranges from 27 to 32 so we are scoring enough points.

I have major reservations about how we defend, both tactially and structurally, and this is at the heart of our issues in terms of consistency of performance. We simply don't defend well enough for long enough, and this is ruthlessly exposed by the better teams on a consistent basis.

Since 2009 our league performances have regressed with each year defensively, and whilst we have scored more points this season than in any since '08, we are leaving ourselves with a mountain to climb by treating the regular league season with disdain. If the players and coaching team remain the same for next year, we must arrest this slide and improve defensively by a significant margin to be "truely" competitive, rather than sit at the top of the "also ran" section of SL for the regular rounds.

From what Ive been told and seen at yesterdays game your bang on, the senior players in the team dont pay any attention to what the coach says young liam hood looked desperate to get on stood on the sideline waving a bit of paper with the number of player who the coach wanted to take off and was ignored 3 times that spoke volumes to me I know that players hate being subbed but surely the coach should determine the rotations not the players to me this begs the question why the players arnt interested in what the coach wants maybe they feel he is out of his depth and doesnt make any sense in what he is coaching them. Didnt Bluey say something about player power when he resigned or am I imagining that?
In public they all praise Brian but in private I will wager its a different matter

If I was the coach and someone I had told to come off wouldn't, they wouldn't play for me again for quite some time...

Regardless of what you think of the coach, he's still the boss until you are told otherwise.

Is it any wonder that the players have that attitude, when we even have fans on this board who would pick players based on the amount of rings they have rather than form. When that attitude spreads throughout players and club officials, it is then a major complacency issue, along with an ignorance to reality. A very minimum of 3 players who start week in week out for us, are purely picked on historical perfomrances/winners medals.

Which number was Hood holding up?

Remind me again which team was it yesterday that was down to 12 men for the majority of the game....and which team was then comfortably able to create overlaps ???

I've stated similar to the above speculation before: the dressing room shots we have seen certainly do not point to a coach in command of his troops. He always appears to be incidental to what's going on around him.

Arrrrgghhh! Too late. The damage is already done. (Perhaps this means the signing of Wolfman Williams after all ...thus securing more season tickets from the easily pleased majority numpties)

I tend to agree with Brisbane in that I seriously hope Leeds get dumped out of the play-offs by Wakefield. Even if Leeds make it to another final it will simply mean another subsequent season of pitiful performances, with the same pitiful coaching staff. It might still be the case, of course, but we can certainly guarantee it if Leeds make another GF.

The SL play-offs are simply a joke I'm afraid if Leeds do actually succeed again.

Last season's success was a fantastic acheivement, but as discussed this morning with another poster, the gods were somewhat generous to us. We started with a ver winnable game at home against Hull FC, and then an away game against a woeful Giants team. Then the real business started, but we had a bit of a head of steam up by then.

This year we face an in form Wildcats team on a 7 game winning run, and then a trip to either Catalans or Wigan, both of which are infinitely harder than the week 2 game from last year.

I can see us losing the Wakey game, but we probably won't, and then going out in France as we have never won there under this coaching set up, and they probably won't get past Wigan at the first attempt.

Maybe if the teams in positions 1 & 2 after the regular rounds get to Old Trafford, it would put some integrity back into the full season rather than just the playoffs?

Good call

I've been learning how to back all the horses from Uncle Jeffrey....

Last year we had Buderus.