It's perhaps a little early to say that yet.

Going by league position/points at this moment

By your own estimation, thats the wrong thing to go by surely? You won't know whether they've done it better until October.

No thats true but obviously the higher you finish the better chance you stand

Tony Smith has rested several of his key men on occasions throughout the season in a return to his early Headingley 'tinkerman' days. Presumably he intends to have his key men fit and firing on all cylinders at the business end. If that results in the giving up of a few fairly meaningless league points along the way to a first GF appearance for his club I imagine it will be viewed as a price worth paying.

Not sure that is what Brian McDermott has been doing with Leeds.

Also other than Salford and maybe us for an hour his teams no matter what selection process have competed whilst he's utilised his squad.

I just want to point out the most important statistics under Brian McDermott:

in 1.5 seasons

1 Super League Title
2 Challenge Cup Finals, 1 to play, 1 lost on some very dodgy refereeing

yes, we've had some bad results (away at Stains, home to Pies), but we've had some great ones (last weekend, Wire semi last year). When it matters, we have been able to play rugby at a higher level than any other team in Super League.

Contrast this to McClennan: Blown off the park by Wire in the 2010 CC final, couldn't live with Wigan in the playoffs semi in 2010. Out of the CC in 2008 & 2009.

So far under BMD we have contested every major final available. And I'd put money on us continuing that record this year. And that's what matters.

thats not what this is about. i suggest you read peter smiths excellant piece in tonights evening post

I think it's worth taking into account that league form and finishing position have been more than a good indicator of who is going to be in the GF and who isn't since the 1998 GF debut. On only 2 occaisions have a team from outside the top 2 won the title, and you could say that this Leeds team would be the one you would think could pull off a win from 5th given their pedigree. And as we know when the Bulls did it they benefitted from a Saints team missing key players thanks to Terry Newton in the semi and they breached the cap as well.

So, was last year a "one off" or the "shape of things to come"? Maybe the change to the playoff system has made it more likely that a team can come through from outside the top 2, maybe last year was an anomoly and playing poorly for large parts of the season and finishing outside the top 2 is going to be as unproductive as it's been for the seasons 1998 to 2010.

I also think that in the past Leeds have been able to underperform yet have still been a level above the opposition, I also think back to certain seasons where fringe players in the squad such as Liam Botham, would come into the team and actually rise up to match the established players. Botham, as an example, had many fine games for Leeds and did some good things. It's much better when guys like that go up a level when they get their chance rather than the rest of the team dropping down a level when not at full strength.

League form has imo, has to be a major target for all clubs in pre-season preparation and planning - i'd be surprised if it wasn't.

I read it and get what he's saying. The only thing I'd argue with is that he seems to imply Leeds' success has been built solely on big game performance. I'd say the opposite, Leeds's success has been built on consistancy. Top 2 placings 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009 and then the stones to get nto the GF and win it 4out of 5 years in that period. The confidence the boys got in 2004 after the dissapointment of 2003 was built on finishing top by a record margin, it enabled them to cope with the loss to the Bulls in the first playoff game and then still have the mental strength to see off a strong Wigan and then take the Bulls in the final.
I'd go further and say that all that league consistancy in the past was money in the bank and gave the big names at our club, who have been through all that, the deep down core strength to do what we did last year. Saints had it too - a relatively poor campaign for them, being overshadowed by Wigan in 2010 and Warrington now league leaders would have finished most teams, but they were strong enough to beat Wigan twice and claw their way back to Old Trafford, just like we did.
I don't believe any other team finishing 5th would have done what we did last year - except maybe Saints - the two most [iconsistant[/i teams of the last 9 or 10 seasons.

Leeds may well do it again this year, we have some of the most gifted, competitive, intelligent and skillful players I've ever seen in a Leeds shirt. Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow and the rest really are that good. Who knows, if we hadn't lost Peacock and McGuire at the end of 2010 we may have been going for our 6th in a row this year.

Im saying the opposite mate. We should be aiming for top two.

Not arguing there, I know where you're coming from, I also happen to think league form is a target for all teams with ambitions of lifting the championship trophy, not just something the fans want to see. How much did the boys want to finish top in 2009 after comments made about them "upsetting the odds" in 2007 and 2008 - and that was after leading the league for much of both those years and ending up 2nd FFS!

I'm not a fan of the argument that goes along the lines of "do you want A. up and down league form and a win in the GF or B. good league form and no trophy at the end". History shows that good league form is usually one of the requirements for winning the championship - ie. finishing top 2. It's usually the case that you get C. good league form and a trophy.
This Leeds team is a bit special, last year it messed up the stats a bit thankfully. Or there is the possibility that messing about with the playoff system year after year has finally proved to be a disaster and the regular season now does actually mean nothing as long as you finish top 8.

I would like a 12 team league and a top 5 play off. Far to many meaningless games nowadays and the standard is poor. I can hardly remember more than 4 or 5 good games all season

Genuine question.

If (...and it's a very big IF) we were to win the Challenge Cup this year would we be triple Champions being the reigning World Club Champions, reigning Super League Champions and Challenge Cup winners? Or do you have to achieve all three in the same year?