Both out of contract at end of year, so probably 2+2 =5

Agree totally. Those signings would be a disaster. If we sign the likes of clubb and wilkes, we know mcdermott will be staying

Next year's 17:

Webb
Hardaker
Smith
Watkins
Hall
McGuire
Burrow
Bailey
McShane
Peacock
Jones-Buchanan
Ablett
Sinfield

Delaney
Burgess
Scruton
Senior

also in squad:

Pitts
Clarkson
Amor
Kirke
Ambler
Coady
Singleton
Ward
Jones-Bishop
Kettlewell




to go: Leulaui, Lauititi, Buderus, Cross, Hauraki

I know saints are looking at club but I'm not so sure on him myself. His defence is very very poor.

Quote: Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan "Next year's 17 Just signed a new deal at the Bulls www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ord_Bulls/

Quote: Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan "Next year's 17 Just signed a new deal at the Bulls www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ord_Bulls/

Well id only bring in two from outside, the rest would be replaced from within. Watkins, Pitts, Ambler, Clarkson, Hardaker, BjB are at a stage when they need to be stepping up to being first team players, and I would say they all deserve the opportunity to do so. Bringing in new players is going to mean chances for these players are restricted and they will struggle to reach their potential.

There is nothing wrong with our half-back three. Imo Mcguire is still the best stand off in the competition, Sinfield is still by far, the most creative loose forward in the league and if not the best certainly among the best leaders in the game and Burrow is still among the better scrum halves in the league.

What we arent doing is setting a platform for them to control the game.

We must agree to differ - Burrow is not one of the best scrum halves in the league and having 3 out of every 6 plays going through Sinfield has been really exposed against the better sides. Sinfield is the most creative loose forward in the league because he is the only LF in the league who plays as a half back. You need to compare him to other playmakers in the league e.g. Briers, Brough, Leulaui. As for McGuire he was the best stand off in the competition last year - nobody knows how he will recover after the injury.

The attack is too slow and needs a re-think including the introduction of a serious kicking option something none of the 3 half backs have.

Is suspect some big names will go this season - Webb, Ali, Buderus...But I don't have much confidence on Leeds signing some real talent. I also expect McDermott to be at the helm next season with his squad changes which will be his last chance to deliver - which I suspect will end in failure.

Briers has spent a career flattering to decieve, to say Brough has imploded to the stage of being a liability with 18months of every club he has played at is being kind to him. Whilst Brough and Briers were busy with careers going nowhere Rob Burrow and Kevin Sinfield were winning titles. Lets not forget the 8-10 years Rob Burrow and Kevin Sinfield were fulfilled potential for less than a full season of Briers and Brough doing anything.

The attack looks slow because the pack arent earning them the space behind a better pack, Sinfield and Mcguire and Burrow are capable of ripping any team in this league apart. They have done so for the last 7 years.

Far too many changes.

Agree - far too many changes.

I doubt that we'll win anything next season regardless of how many changes we make. The issue for me is whether GH is going to go back to what worked well in the past - trust in the young players to develop and bring in one or two better older players, with a view to 2013. I don't think its possible to turn round an entire playing squad in a year.

BTW, that squad against Warrington (who looked good in part because Leeds were awful IMO) could and should do far better, regardless of a few odd choices by McDermott. That says to me that the coach is at least part of the problem. The results against Huddersfield and Warrington have shown Leeds to be way off the pace this year - those scorelines at home ought to be unacceptable. I've seen far worse Leeds teams give at least a decent account of themselves against on paper better opposition.

Whilst I agree that some stagnation occurred in the last year or so, I find it laughable that so many 'seers' amongst us apparently would either have thrown half the squad out in 2009 (thus missing out on the third title in a row) or immediately following winning the title have gone in for a major refit of the squad with no evidence of a decline - remember a LOT of people believed the squad last year to have been stronger than 2009).

GH needs to take some responsibility for poor signings - bringing in the likes of Cross and Hauraki (no doubt in a holding role until Ambler/Amor etc were ready) were not the signings of a club seeking to win more honours this season. Hauraki I can accept as a gamble but given that he's patently not working out, we should be looking to offload him.

Basically we have underperforming players and a coach that sadly seems way out of his depth. The first step is to look for a new coach for next season. That may appear making McDermott the scapegoat, but I've seen the impact of quality coaches on teams, and vice versa. I don't think I want to see what McDermott can do next year.

For me it is time for a total rebuild, I can understand poor performances if I thought we were building towards something as in 2002 & 03. What no club with aspirations of honours can do is stagnate/go backwards - this is what has happened here. You only have to look <10 miles east to see what that does to a once top club.

The club needs a cultural change - too many players are in a comfort zone and have played together for too long. No coach will be able to significantly improve these players as they reach the end of their careers. The likes of JJB, Bailey, Sinfield, Burrow, Kirke, Peacock, Webb, Senior, Kylie, Ali are only going to go one way in terms of performance. Younger, quicker and stronger players in other teams are already exposing their age.

If as you suggest you keep the nucleus of this side you are accepting that a slide to mid-table mediocrity is inevitable as the style and speed of play will get even slower.

The concern for me is how easily the top sides have beat us at home - Huddersfield, Warrington, Saints - all of whom were able to put big points on Leeds at home. The performances against Huddersfield and Warrington were frankly embarrassing.

We are not talking about what happened 8/10 years ago - we are talking about now. Just because they were great players doesn't mean sides are going stand by and admire - the top sides know Leeds are vulnerable and have dismantled them accordingly.

Your view is get a prop and it will all be OK - I disagree I think more radical surgery is required and that means a change in the way we attack and defend. You will not do that with the existing personnel - they are set in their ways - which was OK three years ago but the game has moved on.

I am sure Briers was thinking I am flattering to deceive at Wembley when Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire were filling there potential. I am sure he was thinking the same thing on Friday.

As for Brough what happened previously has no bearing on now - he is in a different world to any of our playmakers - sometimes you have to move on, something the CEO at Leeds finds very difficult.