There was one game at Central Park that I distinctly recall where every time Wigan were in trouble one of the centres would stand way off-side outwide and Robin Whitfield would dutifully blow the whistle and award the penalty to Leeds. Needless to say this was in the time before sin-binnings were introduced to alleviate this type of cynical gamesmanship.

There was also a famous Wembley final (1966 I think it was) between Wigan and St Helens where Alex Murphy played the trick. Penalties in those days resulted in a scrum and with Colin Clarke (Phil's dad) suspended for the final (how's that for punishment by the Rugby Gods) Murphy would stand offside out wide and concede the penalty expecting Saints hooker Bill Sayer(?) to scoop the vast majority of the ball and the Cup.

The following day the Saints players (complete with Challenge Cup) were in the audience of an Eamonn Andrews TV chat show whose main guest was Mohammad Ali and Ali even brought the Saints squad into the conversation when discussing fitness and picked out one of the forwards as a potential sparring partner.

thats correct I remember that you just jogged my memory once again

Better than what?

What have I said? I merely observed it was Buderus who gave away the last two penalties of the game and the final one that gave Wigan the point? Where do I criticize him for it, where do I say he did the wrong thing? All I did was make a factual observation. Because that factual observation doesn't involve me licking Buderus booty it upsets his adoring hordes.

Would Leeds have defended the last attacking play of the game? We will never know, they weren't given the opportunity. It can be argued they would not, it can be argued they would. What can't be argued was it was Buderus who conceded the penalty that gave them the point.

Is that penalty any more contributory to the draw than any of the other points conceded or in fact any of the opportunities missed due to poorly executed skills?

Given that we were two points ahead and the hooter sounded before he kicked it then, erm, yes.

I'll concede that some of Buders's other penalties or even turnovers might have contributed.

Was it any more contributory than Senior's lack of defensive ability against Joel Tomkins in the last few minutes for example, when part time centre Tomkins made lots of ground against the most experienced centre in the competition? After all Wigan scored tries in the sets after both of Tomkins breaks down the channel Senior was defending in.

To try and lay the blame for the draw at the door of Buderus is a little unfair given the errors that others made in the last 10 to 15 minutes. If we had taken the chances we had in the first half we would have been out of sight and there would have been no need for anyone to give the late penalty which Sam Tomkins converted to level the scores.

Still don't let the facts get in the way of your Buderus bashing agenda. Bet Diskin wouldn't have given those last two penalties away...

People claim I have an agenda yet all I have done is make statements about the fact that it was Buderus's penalty that handed the draw to Wigan. Go to all the lengths you wish to lay the blame elsewhere but we'd stopped the break on the line and any defensive frailty by Senior at that stage had cost us nothing more than field position.

Why do Buderus's fanboys get their panties in a twist over this? It happened. I suspect it's others with an agenda to refuse to see anything other than glowing praise written about their hero.

I even tried to praise the guy by pointing out how happy I was to see him pick up his first man of the match award (to my recollection) in his three season's with us. It's about time he started being one of our most dominant players given his reputation (even though I thought JJB was more deserving and can't argue with Highbury's call for Ablett either).

You're a right wind up merchant

Just watched the game again and whilst some might wish to claim Buderus last second penalty was a hero saving us a point (it wasn't, we had players on the line and the two other tacklers managed to peel off) I've still seen no explanation for his 77th minute penalty that gave Wigan the position for their final try. What was he doing then?

Oh, and having watched the game back I agree with Highbury about Ablett but JJB was everywhere.

The problem is Gareth you have done what you hate being done to you - i.e. taking isolated incidents and using them in a critic on player. Whenever this is done on some players, one in particular, you will defend him to the end as if errors of this nature are acceptable for some players but not for others especially Buderus.

It will interesting to see the stats from the game and his overall contribution in terms of tackles made/missed metres gained etc.

I still go back to my original point you dislike him because he displaced a player who fits exactly your idea of what you admire in a player. Buderus on the other hand is the antithesis of that.

When you look for a man of the match performance - I would offer the semi last year against Saints? Buderus is player who plays at a consistently high standard, for me he is as good if not better than any nine in the comp and an asset to the side.

G1, it's a shame that you have this blinkered view of Buderus in a Leeds shirt, it's really affecting your appreciation of one of the best players of our generation. Remember the bloke you quoted the other week telling his son that he should watch Sinfield as he only had a few years left, and he was a living legend? Well the same goes for Buderus.

Yes, I remember reading that with a tear in my eye....

Anyone know how Disco is actually doing over at Odsal? Has he raised his game to a Buderus level yet, or is his property developing getting in the way?

We really don't want Gledhill on here bitchin' about Garry doing the dirty on them again, and selling them a pig in a poke!

What can also be argued is that had we had a left centre who had half a brain cell and was still up to super league, then Buderus would not have been put in that position in the first place.

Except for when he sneaked in a little too much and left a gap a little too wide for Prescott for Wigan's last try!!

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