I always admire your optimism.....hope YOU're right. Still think would rather have Smith at FB with the pacier Jones-Bishop on the right wing. Watkins and Hall on the left.

That's another option i'm sure that will be looked at but i think Bjb is the incumbant FB so imo would make more senes to play him there and keep Smithy on the wing.
Time will tell i suppose.
After what we've witnessed mate i think the club and squad at the very least deserve some optimism.

I cant comment on any of the younger players as i havnt followed their progress, but I have heard big praise for Chisholm from various people, hopefully there are others capable of stepping up in the next 2 seasons.

I would be happy to see Watkins play in the centres regularly next season although I do agree that it takes several players a yr or so to bed in and hopefuly he will get second season syndrome in reverse.

I think most Leeds fans agree we need a new prop for next season because I always believe as a general rule forwards win you matches and backs decide by how much. Go forward will be even more crucial next year without Mcguire for the first 2months.

With Mcguire in the team I dont see what Rob Burrow offers us now as he has lost the acceleration and speed he had 5yrs ago. To compliment Mcguire when he is fully fit we need a HB in the mould of Briers,Dobson and even Brough.

By Signing every player up for next season it will mean massive changes for 2012 and it will be a very difficult job for Mcdermott when he surely takes over from Bluey as Head Coach.

Whatever people say it is a transitional period for Leeds now, not just because we have an ageing team that has been hampered by injuries but there is now more competition than there has been for the last 3 yrs. There are now 5 teams capable of getting to the GF unlike just 2 of the last 3 yrs.

i think the important thing we need to keep in perspective is we did get to the CC final and within 40minutes of old trafford. That shows to me we are still one of the best teams in this league,

People seem to be thinking that our players will be year older and a year worse, but they will play fewer games, Mcguire and Peacock will get a full rest and pre-season which is something neither have had for years (i understand they are injured by the start of preseason next year their rehab will be focussed on building up to contact and the twisting/turning of the knee, they will still be able to do fitness work) It is just as likely that we see them both come back revatilised and even better next year than this.

We have lacked at times and come up short, but we need to be at our very very best to win the big games, and without Mcguire, Peacock, and at times Sinfield, Burrow and Webb it would have always taken an outstanding effort for us to do so. We play a game which is based on support running, we dont grind them out with five drives and a kick like Wigan we offload and take risks, with these players not playing together all that much, it was always going to take time for them to gel like they have for the past three years.

This run in we have had a half fit Ali, A 15min from Bailey, no burgess and no Peacock but have still done ok.

A fully fit Ali will be like a new player, we will have a fully fit bailey, Burgess returning and a rested Peacock up front, not to mention a year older and year wiser from Ambler, Clarkson and Pitts.

Next season we clearly need someone to replace Eastwood, a similar player in a similar mould. If we can do that I think we are strong in the pack.

for the centres, i have no real problem with either Delany or Senior, both as good as anything out there in SL really, maybe they are a bit similar but Watkins should get more game time next year and he is a real prospect, its good that both Delany and Senior can cover the 2nd row as it should open up slots for Watkins.

Our Wingers are among the best in the League IMO, Smith and Hall will do fine

Webb has been disappointing for a couple of years imo, i think he has lost his zip, a yard of acceleration and isnt the player he was. However his positioning is good, his reading of the play and chiming into the line is good, and his ability to play as a 2nd s-o from FB is 2nd to none in SL imo. but BJB also looks a prospect ready to step in over the next season, and make the position his own in 2012.

Mcguire, Burrow and Sinfield are all good players imo, I think Mcguire and Sinfield are very very very good in fact. there is no change needed there, would like to see Ward maybe get a couple of games in as cover for Mcguire, its early in the season so shouldnt damage us too much and it should help his development.

Im not sure we need massive surgery, whilst we do have players 30+ we do seem to have players getting ready to step up for those players. A fully rested, focussed and revitalised Leeds squad will be a major force next year.

As for the huge changes in 2012? who really will need to be replace that we dont already have someone to step up?

I think you are missing my point. I am not denegrating our success over the last 3 years or the players that achieved that success. Neither am I suggesting that failure to win 4 GF on the trot is indeed a failure. Most clubs would settle for beaten CC finalists, to finish 4th in the league and get to the semi final of the playoffs despite injuries to key players. I am looking at the present and future and not the past.

I think you will agree that both our attack and defence is not as good as it was and the quality of our rugby is not as good. IMO we now play a poorer standard of rugby than we did 2 or 3 years ago with more one up play and less offloads all of which is more pedestrian and less attractive to watch. Hence we are going backwards.

Why is this when our players are the same ones that played thrilling rugby only a couple of years ago? The answer IMO is two fold. Firstly some of the players have lost vital pace with age and injuries which is normal. Secondly Bluey's style of play does not best suit the talents of the squad he inherited and we are wasting some of our players skills in one up rugby.

I think we would have won the first of the back to back titles even if you had been the coach! Why? because we had at the time the best set of players in SL who were settled and ahead of the chasing pack. Bluey didn't need to change anything to win that title, however he had started to play a more one up game with a flatter attack. The change of style continued and second of his 2 titles IMO was won despite Bluey's style and was more down to the outstanding group of players he inherited and the fact that St Helens and the rest had not our mental toughness which we had built up over several years.

This year there have been clear signs from the very start of the season that we were being overtaken in technique and playing style. Other teams were adapting better to the new, slower ruck area which negated one of our key strengths ie: a quick PTB. Wigans transformation this year has been largely down to their coach. We didn't learn the lessons of the World Club Championship defeat.

So we have to move on. Change is part of the game. We have to recognise when stars begin to fade and have a plan of succession. Ali is no longer the impact player he was. Burrow has never recovered from his injuires of last year neither has Webb. The same may happen to JP and McGuire. Senior has past his peak as a centre. Delaney is not a centre. So do you trust to luck and hope all will be solved with a couple of months rest?

I would be giving the young players a chance next year but I would also recruit a proven go forward prop, some cover at half back and keep an eye open for a fast .

Indeed, and when we turned out at Wembley we were handed our Arris. Similarly, on Saturday we were still competing for the full 80, but were unable to put a score on the board for over an hour of play! Yes, we are still one of the top 4, but we no longer enjoy the feeling, that no matter what,that we could score a try from anywhere on the pitch.



We can certainly hope so. However ruptured knee ligaments is a serious injury, and it is not a given that either will recover 100 percent. Fingers crossed for quite a while I reckon.



I'm trying to think when was the last time we had a fully fit Ali. That strapping on his leg appears to be a permanent fixture this last couple of years. Likewise Bailey, another guy who needs surgery. Clarkson has done very well this year, and I expect him to develop over the coming seasons. Being put on his ass a couple of times by Prescott will have hurt his pride, and he will no doubt work on his tackling technique.



24 year old Kiwi Internationals are a bit thin on the ground, but I suspect GH is already looking!



For me, neither have set the heather on fire this year at centre, and possibly their future is in the back row. I'd like to see that for a couple of games anyhow, as I don't think our pack frightens anybody.

Without Eastwood we certainly need another forward who can bend the defence when he hits the line. Perhaps Delaney/Senior can provide some of that impact.

My issue is more around the overall style of play, which revolves too much around quick PTB and offloads, and nowhere near enough on structure. Very rarely do Leeds look like they have a plan for a set of tackles, which is especially apparent near the line. Given the playmakers we have, that is ridiculous.

The other obvious issue which should be addressed is interchange hooker. Bluey needs to pick one of Buderus and Diskin and have a non-hooker on the bench. Its disruptive to the side to have a big change in hooking style during the game, and its a waste of a bench spot which IMO would better be used by an impact forward.

Genuine question.

When (if at all) did we have a fully fit squad to choose from in 2010?

IMHO we do need to be on the hunt for something a bit special to bolster the pack - we saw one or two glimpses of 'what might have been' with Ali and Eastwood on the pitch at the same time...even though both seemed to be playing on one leg!

Manning has been released and has signed for Batley source -YEP.

Very, very strange decision IMO.

I'm not saying he would have gone on to be a world-beater, but I would have thought the emergence of Clarkson at 20 years of age might just be enough evidence that players can develop later and enough to earn the likes of Manning another year at least.

If other posts (Bang) have any truth in them (??) ...about certain individuals moving on, despite their apparent signed contract extensions, then it even more puzzling as to the club's intentions for next year.