The early rounds of the CC are not well attended but so what. The playoff games in Super League are very badly attended. Does Lawrie think we should scrap the Grand Final as well?

And I am in entire agreement with TVOC. Cowell has shown that despite his weekly protestations this is NOT a singing competition. His refusal to get rid of the worst singers on the show, Jedward and the cute Welsh kid the week before, show that its' really just a circus.

I only think that it was last week Simon's integrity came into real question. In general he says what he feels and wants and mostly follows through. With the Rachel over Lloyd he said that he had to take in account that despite singing well she had been in the bottom two twice before and therefore the public were not connecting with her... fair and correct comment for me. With Jedward his mistake was not saying before the sing-off that they were indeed entertaining (sic) and he would take that as well as singing into account or that he might just let the public decide anyway. He said he would base it on the sing-off and off course, because they can't sing, he did look like lair for then changing his own personal frame of reference.

I have never been under any illusions that Cowell or the show had any integrity. However, to take the show in any way seriously it must be treated as a talent show rather than a freakshow and Cowell, for reasons best known to him has allowed two of the least talented acts (one of which has NO talent) to remain at the expense of two fairly talented kids.

If Cowell is so concerned about the public vote get rid of the pompous judges all together and kick out the act with the fewest votes every week.

I cannot believe I am avoiding work to discuss the X Factor online!

Back on topic, one way to influence the decision is for all RL fans to lobby their local MP to support the Callenge Cup to remain on the free to air list.
Also use the All Party Parliamentary Group that supports RL to do the same.
All MPs (especially Labour) are desparate to win or keep hold of votes so they should be happy to support this.
Off topic, never mind (Bollo)X factor in our house the boss commandeers the TV every Saturday for Strictly Come Dancing.

Yep, indeed the same Cowell. the same Simon Cowell in fact who appears to be considerably more intelligent than the millions of viewers who fall for all this year in year out.

Ironically enough, there is quite a relevant link here between all this and the debate on the cup. It has quite rightly been pointed out that the earlier rounds of cup competitions don't attract (obviously) either the same attention or attendances as the later rounds. The same may have been the case with the X Factor were it not for Simon Cowell and his clever manipulating of the viewers. Generally, they tend to get the right winner (well, apart from when the little scottish gimp beat Rhydian a couple of years ago) However, what happens in the build up to that can be tweaked and messed with left right and centre, and by and large Cowell does this to perfection - end result? As much interest in the early rounds as there is in the later rounds - job done!

Every year now it seems there's one "novelty" act (Chico, McDonald Brothers, Same Difference and now John & Edward) for the judges to bicker over, which usually splits the fan base down the middle, and also, very conveniently, results inloads of extra tabloid inches, loads of extra publicity, and, invariably, a short lived career for the act involved which, again conveniently, provides Cowell with a bonus few quid that he wouldn't have got otherwise - without all the attention due to them being "too rubbish to be on the show" they'd have never sold any records whatsoever.

So, we end up with the perfect set up. Cowell sees these two Irish twins in the auditions and sees pound signs, big pound signs. Whether or not they have any talent is irrelevant - Cowell knows full well that he can use them to manipulate the public, because he's done so successfully so many times already. So we start of by being spoon fed the whole "John and Edward are evil and annoying" stuff. When that has the desired effect, they become "victims of bullying", resulting in sympathy aplenty. Meanwhile,more publicity, more controversy, and more importantly, more money for the man who runs the show. In a week or two, with their job done and the cash cow sufficiently primed, they'll be jettisoned to make way for the true talent of the series, who will fight it out so that a "genuine and deserving" winner can be found. It's perfect, and very, very easy - made easier by the fact that millions of people fall for it every single year. As long as the public continue to fall for it, it'll continue to happen.

Integrity? Do you think Cowell gives the tiniest damn about integrity? He'll get a "proper" winner which will enable him to carry on the charade of it being a "talent" competition, meanwhile he'll continue to count the cash the talentless but entertaining ones make him. Win-win for him. Maybe the RFL should bring him on board to make the Challenge Cup more interesting?

I'll read all that later but for now can I just

Edit: How dare you disrespect Leon like that. And what about Michelle McMannus?

American Idol by plenty, go Sanjayer Malakar.

Not that I'm a fan unlike your good self.

Leon????!!!!! Don't even go there!

The CC final is only on a protected list, and as someone has pointed out, the BBC currently show more than just this round.

Also, the definition is that the events need to be of national importance. Comparisons between 6 nations and the CC is stupid. One is an international series, which people all over the country will watch, over 5 weeks, and one is a club level match, of a reasonably regional sport. lets not get ahead of ourselves.

If RL was ever to get a set format international calendar, and generate some reasonable attendance and viewing figures, we could claim national interest, but when we can't even get 25k for an international match we should look at our own house before complaining because the nasty BBC are against us.

I wonder if Leeds had won the last three Challenge Cup Finals rather than Grand Finals if Lawrie would show the same contempt for the competition!

Perhaps the RFL should converse with Lawrie before organising competitions or introducing new ideas as he clearly thinks he knows it all! Then all RFL events could be organised around the festivals and Lawrie could attend everything.

Indeed, a closer comparison would be the Heineken Cup or Premiership play-offs - neither of which are protected.

Well you normally talk sense, so a bit surprised by your response! It is nothing to do with the BBC for a start, it is to do with the government department who draw up the list. I do not believe that the six nations should be taken off the list and when did this become about international RU versus international RL. The CC cup final gets just as big a crowd if not bigger than some of the games in the six nations. So why does the attendances in the RL four nations even come in to this... that is not on the list?

The six nations gets 5 weeks of coverage and surely that is worthy of one weekend of RL at least on the list. Also we have three teams outside of this 'regional sport' you talk about and two of those have made the CC final in the last 10 years! As I also said, there is very little difference in overall seasonal average attendances between the Zurich Premiership and SL and therefore 'regional' issues should not even come in to it because we are the third biggest weekly spectator sport after football!

To make this worse the ECB does not want the Ashes to be put back on the list, as they say it damages funding significantly! Maybe the RFL might say the same but I am not sure I want the government to favour one code of Rugby over another which it appears to be on the verge of doing.

Why does the decision need to have anything to do with league versus union?

What does the status of the Six Nations on the list have to do with anything? You're comparing apples with forklifts.

I am not as such, the government are though because of what has been said.

[iBut in December 2008, Andy Burnham, the secretary of state for culture, media and sport, announced a review into the sporting events that should be safeguarded on free-to-air television.

Reflecting on the success of the Beijing Olympics, he said "the broadcast of big sports events... get young people inspired by sport, driving sports participation and the creation of the next generation of sports stars."

He added

So are we prepared to let RU's show-piece event (which the six nations is, lets be honest) be chosen over our show-piece event of the CC to "get young people inspired by sport, driving sports participation and the creation of the next generation of sports stars."

You say apples to forklifts and while I agree it is not quite apples to apples it is at least red apples to green apples is it not?

If that is the case then fine... take it off free-to-air.

Regarding teh BBC my bad

my main point was that the list is seemingly to be about events of national importance. I don;t think that the CC final rates as that. Its the only non-international match on the current list, aside from the FA Cup final.

Personally I think that the coverage of the CC is generally poor form the BBC, but the sport would be hurt by not being available to the general public to view

The CC should go back to its original slot at the end of the season with the final the week before the Grand Final, just like it used to be