I would let Jon Wilkin give me a facial anyday after that performance today.

If you say so.

you forgotten last october already? when we lifted the trophy?

i see what you are getting at and to a certain extent agree.the structure and balance of the team is wrong.we have too many weak spots at the moment and saints exploited them to the full

I thought that Saints were obviously the better side. They looked sharper, the attacks were more fluent and in general they had a good control of the game.

On Bentham, I think that our first pen was awarded after 20 minutes and we were penalised a few times in the opening period. It's difficult to really gauge the refereeing from TV, but I somehow doubt that Saints were as innocent as Bentham had them in the opening quarter. We were also badly done to when we were penalised for a strip when it was 1-on-1, I felt the penalty for Saints for tackling the player without the ball was a joke. That happens numerous times every match and nothing happens. The difference today was that that Saints player started a melee, the game stopped and the ref decided to restart it with a pen for Saints. Clearly rewarding scrapping IMO. (And in reply to the comment earlier that the penalty was for an elbow at the player, if the offence was an attack with the elbow to a player without the ball then it'd have been a sending off offence.)

On top of that the two 40/20s and a few bounces of the ball meant that a 4 point defeat isn't too bad at all. It's disappointing that Saints have dominated the Challenge Cup and we've gone so long without winning it, but it's obvious that Saints would swap their CC wins for winning the GF. Let them have their Challenge Cups, we'll have the biggest prize.

I'm never watching a game drunk again as I can't believe the better team lost

If anything the players should take from this game is their lack of ambition in attack. Hopefully it'll all click together sometime this season because if it does Leeds will be an awesome side to watch.

What like he did in October 2008 - they played Saints 4 times last year and won twice - might have a chance the next time we play them it is the week after the CC final?

The problem is the squad IMO - the threequarter line is pretty abysmal for a top side - you cannot try and do top positions on the cheap if you are a top side - we have needed a serious centre for two years and Ellis has not been replaced. If you compare the two sides how many of our players would get into the Saints side?

However I do think McClennan made some selection mistakes today - playing either Kylie or Burgess before Bailey was an error both are liabilities in defence. Donald looks a shadow of the player he was on the right wing he needs swopping back and the right centre position needs sorting - for me Gibson doesn't offer enough, Watkins is too young and Smith is a FB. For me he should have stuck with Ablett

Webb probably
Donald
Senior
Maybe McGuire and Burrow
Peacock
Ali
Buderus

However, I wouldn't want too many Saints players in our side

Gidley for Smith
Graham for Leulaui
Roby for Diskin

Donald - not on his current form
McGuire & Burrow before Pryce and Long
Ali or Puletua not sure Ali wins there
Buderus before Cunningham - jury out on that one

It was accidental, the whole second paragraph of your post is utter cr*p.

Ref had nothing to do with it, as bad as he was.

Centre had nothing to do with it. Gibson was certainly not as bad as his wing partner.

Buderus was poor. But he is still not fit, and yet he was still far better than Diskin.

Dont give a about going out of the cup. Its an inferior trophy, as I have stated many times on these boards. Yet I was gutted yesterday, at the gulf in class between the two sides. Saints were far far better. Our march backwards in performance levels this season is alarming. I have stated it on 3 seperate occassions now, starting with the first game in regards preseason friendlies. Our tactics our poor, and we have been outplayed in all games, except Catalans, and half a game againts Wigan.

We played them 5 times last year.

No. I dont mean beat them, I mean comprehensively out play them and take them to the cleaners, like Smith's sides did twice in 2007. We blew them away in the league encounter at Headingley and in the GF with some exhilerating rugby. Mclennan's wins last year were nowhere near the same manner and I take nothing away from our GF win.

The problem is the coach IMO. We were very, very flat yesterday apart from the last 15 mins. They were 1st to all the loose balls. Look at the PTB before Gidley's 2nd half try. We had three tacklers, none of who were off the floor by the time the tackled player had played the ball.

You have mentioned in the past that a great coach improves players. Do you think JJB has improved under McLennan? What has happened to Burrow's defence? Where's the fluency in attack?

I have a suspicion that his arm around the shoulders and rah rah approach is starting to wear off and the team needs something with a little more substance.

Agreed. Kylie was grasping several times today. I'd assumed Bailey was still injured but of he was ommitted that is a huge gaff on Mclennan's part.