FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Hock - rhymes with.. |
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds "The above quote features your words and not mine. I never said that Leeds [iwere some benevolent entity that allowed players to avoid contractual obligations[/i. All I wrote was [iThis would never happen at Leeds Rhinos[/i and it hasn't happened at Leeds. Hock has being given very little choice in what he wanted to do and now he finds himself loaned out at Widnes where he won't even be able to play against his hometown team.
A couple of Leeds Rhinos players have gone out on loan in recent years and have being allowed to play against Leeds Rhinos. Ben Cross is a super league baddie who got released by mutual consent with Leeds Rhinos mid season and then went on to play with Wigan Warriors without any of the constraints that Hock has now.
Regarding your points concluding [iSame principal should apply both ways[/i, clubs are a lot richer than players and therefore will always have the upper arm. Clubs can always recover from player loses as no player is bigger than the club in this sense. However you can't really say that a player can recover from a club ripping up a contract. It is not equal when you look at the bigger picture. Players have short careers whilst clubs pretty much stay around forever.
My empathy with Hock lies with the fact that he is human and this hasn't being taken into consideration by most people. Ian Lenagan is a very wealthy man and can afford to bribe players with better deals to keep them in his club. However money doesn't always make things better and it hasn't in this case. The Wigan Warriors owner can't have his own way so he throws toys out of his pram by having a sulk in the media to make Gareth Hock look really bad.'"
Nobody forced Hock to sign a 5 year deal.
And its been for Christ's sake.
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| Quote: rhinoms "Damo -The way you repay the faith and support the likes of Hock received is to show complete respect,some loyalty and stick to your contract agreements (especially after 2 pay increases) and work as hard if not harder than anyone for that Club rather than bite the hand that feeds you.
You mention morals what morals was Hock sticking to when throwing the white stuff up his nose then blaming all and sundry when caught?
He's been treated with the same level of respect his conduct appears to have shown the club.'"
Gareth Hock has repaid the faith by performing well for Wigan on the field.
Unfortunately this wasn't enough for Wigan and they wanted more of Hock than what he could give. Five years is a long time and a lot can change so it's unrealistic to expect a five year contract to go smoothly. Maybe as a sport we can learn from this, look at what can be done and think about changing the law so we don't have another tragic case like whats happened to Gareth Hock.
I don't know the full details behind white stuff nose sniffing incidents but I can safely assume it's not all Gareth Hocks fault. We live in the society that has created the white stuff nose sniffing incidents and it'll be unreasonable to just blame these incidents just on the individuals involved. We've all being morally wrong in our lives but clubs should know better than the young men they employ.
Regarding your last point - clubs should know better!
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| Quote: Wheels "Nobody forced Hock to sign a 5 year deal.'"
Quote: Wheels "Five years is a long time and a lot can change so it's unrealistic to expect a five year contract to go smoothly. Maybe as a sport we can learn from this, look at what can be done and think about changing the law so we don't have another tragic case like whats happened to Gareth Hock.'"
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| Quote: G1 "You were saying Leeds were some benevolent entity that allowed players to avoid contractual obligations. I was merely demonstrating that was not the case.
Leeds were legally and morally right to enforce the contract, just as Wigan have been right to do likewise with Hock's contract. Players would be up in arms if teams could simply avoid their obligations under a contract. Simply tear up a contract a year into a three year deal. Same principal should apply both ways.
Failing to understand your empathy with Hock in any way shape or form.'"
Gareth - Leeds have demonstrated on numerous occasions that contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. The clubs cannot have it both ways, when it suits Leeds to terminate a contract they find a way of doing it, Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay, Luke Burgess, Ben Cross, Brian McClennan, Lee Smith the list is a long one. To cry foul when the tables are turned smacks of cry-baby behaviour.
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| Quote: Lawrie L "Morally right?!
Wigan stood by Hock during his drugs ban'"
Only because he was one of their very best players - they have not done the same for junior players that have got caught. Professional sport is cynical anyone who thinks the clubs have altruistic instincts is plain barmy.
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| Quote: G1 "Hock displays an awful degree of self entitlement and shows little appetite to earn things. Can't see why Damo would empathize with those traits.'"
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| I don't like Hock - never have done. I think he's an underhand player and off field, a bit of a dick. The fact he was caught taking cocaine speaks volumes about the kind of person he really is.
From what I can see Hock has tried to force Wigan's hand while holding very few cards - Wigan have retaliated by loaning him out to the lowest league club they could and also slapping contractual restraints on the loan to boot. Basically "try and f*ck with us and we'll f*ck you back harder" which IMO is fair enough.
What surprises me the most here is the petty and bitter press release from the Pies - they've not really come across with any dignity at all.
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| I don't know the lad, but from reading his posts, I get the feeling Damo is just trying to be controversial and 'different' to the majority of posters on this thread. If everyone else had been supporting Hock and condemning Wigan, i have a feeling Damo would be supporting the cłub.
Anyone with a degree of sense can see Hock is a wrong un, with a terrible attitude, and that Wigan are well within their rights.
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| As a side issue to this to this pantomime is the growing concerns of the Wigan fans. They are quite rightly expressing doubts about wane and the exodus of star players ,only to be replaced by players of lessor quality. Also many believe rightly or wrongly that the hock situation was handled badly by wane. Whatever one thinks about hock he in my opinion was a top class forward. I am not for one moment suggesting that Wigan are in meltdown but its not the ideal preparation for the forthcoming season. All they want now is for the union brigade to approach master Tompkins or even our Aussie cousins, that would put the tin hat on wigans season.
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds "Wigan are still looking after their own interests to this day by not allowing Gareth Hock sign for his preferred club. If there's any way that could send Gareth spiraling back into bad habits then this is it. '"
If Hock's too stupid to learn from past mistakes then that's no-one's fault but his own. In spite of his failings, I suspect he's honest enough not to go seeking excuses elsewhere.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Gareth - Leeds have demonstrated on numerous occasions that contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. The clubs cannot have it both ways, when it suits Leeds to terminate a contract they find a way of doing it, Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay, Luke Burgess, Ben Cross, Brian McClennan, Lee Smith the list is a long one. To cry foul when the tables are turned smacks of cry-baby behaviour.'"
As usual you make half a decent point but manage to fudge it. Had you stuck to Sheridan and Hay and not invented facts about the rest of the players (and coach) your point would have carried more force.
They allowed Mclennan to void the final year of his deal. Same with Burgess. The loaned Cross out and transferred Smith. They didn't unilaterally breach any of those conracts.
I can't recall the exact facts of the Sheridan and hay saga but I recall there was a tribunal. But reminding us about those incidents further proves my point that Leeds are not the benevolent entity Damo has painted them as.
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds " clubs are a lot richer than players
.'"
Are they? Salford and Bradford may disagree.
Clubs are having a hard time financially. All the more reason they require certainty when dealing with players whom they award contracts.
Quote: Damo-Leeds "My empathy with Hock lies with the fact that he is human and this hasn't being taken into consideration by most people. Ian Lenagan is a very wealthy man and can afford to bribe players with better deals to keep them in his club. However money doesn't always make things better and it hasn't in this case. The Wigan Warriors owner can't have his own way so he throws toys out of his pram by having a sulk in the media to make Gareth Hock look really bad'"
Lenagan has come out of this looking very petty, I agree. I have no love for the Wigan club. They have an air of arrogance that belies the last 15 or so years.
However, I have no issue wit hwhat they have done and have no empathy with Hock. Calling Hock human is also pushing things somewhat
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| I just think that people have got very short memories indeed.
It wasn't that long ago the former Harlequins chairmen envisioned the London based team [ito be playing at the top of the game[/i in 2010. Instead he broke this promise and ironically had his current club Wigan playing at the top of their game in 2010.
Lets also not forget what Ian said when he signed Brian McDermott for Harlequins mid way through the season from Leedsi[/it because he knows he can.
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| Quote: Wheels "If Hock didn't plan on playing for Wigan for five years, then he shouldn't have signed a five year deal. Simple as that.'"
Fully agree, some players would kill for a 5 year deal at a club like wigan, I'm guessing he was happy with the terms (money) of the contract when he signed it.
It looks to me like Hock fancied a move to aus when parramatta showed interest and wigan rightly did everything to block the move as they wanted his services at wigan after the effort they have put into looking after him these past few years.
Parramatta may have paid wigan for Hock but replacing him would not be so easy imo.
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds "Well I have a problem with the likes of Ian Lenagan who thinks he can swan into our sport and treat people like sh[ii[/it because he knows he can.'"
You believe that giving Hock a 5 year deal at wigan after he had been banned for 2 years is treating him like s**t?
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