How did the PL clubs fair in the Champions League - when is the last time we reached a final?

It would suggest the PL isn't all its cracked up to be and yes these players can succeed in the better sides of the PL when surrounded by better players take that crutch away and you get what you got last night. Harry Kane had a free kick in front of the goal close to the end of the game - what happened he missed the target by 20 yards. It would suggest he technique isn't capable of scrutiny under real pressure. Let's face it if he playing against the standard of defenders that played for England last night no wonder he can score 25 goals.

Hart has always been error prone - what has happened in this tournament has happened plenty in his career.

If you believe that you will believe anything. I am sure he and certain other unelected Eurocrats will adhere to his dictat but be sure talks will be going on with the elected leaders of the countries as they are the ones that stand to lose trade and jobs and even their own positions if it goes badly. Mrs M and Monsieur Hollande are up for election next year and will be being lobbied by their various trade groups. The whole reason for having diplomats is to hold secret talks and soundings and it is how international relations have always been conducted. Sir Humphrey will have already entered by the back door.

Juncker could not have been clearer, no pre negotiation negotiations between the EU and the UK. Exercise article 50 when you are ready but nothing will be discussed before then. Delay will only prolong uncertainty which is not in either's best interest.

talks with the heads of major countries will have taken place a while back. these people are sensible and pragmatic. they need the uk's trade.
it's jumped up , unelected, idiots like junker who will be the problem.

I doubt that...unless a while back was last Saturday at the earliest. There was never a plan for this.

As for needing uk trade yes the likes of Germany France and Italy will be keen but how much do we import from Luxembourg? Latvia? Slovenia? Etc. They will all have a vote on the matter. Not sure Poland will be so keen either... Germany will of course pressure the "minnows" but will also need to horse trade

Still don't think article 50 will be invoked. A general election will be called for the autumn. The government needs a mandate to push their plans through Parliament. That's why the feelers keep going out to gauge what the public will allow them to get away with on a continued free movement EEA ticket (anything less of a starting negotiation point would be foolish). Labour continue to implode trying to get themselves positioned to be the main official 'remain' opposition. They know this could be their chance of power if only Corbyn would go. They want to be Blairites again. Liberal democrats already stated they would run on 'remain' .. SNP we know will take Scotland on 'remain' .. Wonder how many seats UKIP will win to add to their one? Interesting and perhaps frightening historical times we are living through.

One old lady in a report I read said thank god that's all over. Typifies many still don't have a clue. It's not even started yet.

To be honest I don't think countries Champions League results bare too much weight to international performances. From 2005 to 2012 at least one English team made the Champions League final barring one (2010) including an all English final in 2008 when England failed to even qualify for Euro 2008 and we were just as poor in the World Cup of 2010 as we were this past month. In that same period Spain only had three final appearances all by Barcelona yet the country won Euro's '08 & '12 and the 2010 World Cup.

Also the issue with pointing towards Champions League football is that we lost to Iceland, what Champions League experience do they have? Wales have Bale and Ramsey and not much else and are in the last 8 and Eire gave a much better account of themselves in defeat against France than we did even though none of their players are at the big clubs and quite a few in the championship.

Like Iceland have shown and Leicester this year and just like we say with RL, attitude is everything. Even if you lack the ability of other teams you can at least give yourself a chance with the right attitude and character and England haven't had close to that since probably the mid/late 90's. We weren't on the end of a passing/possession masterclass by Spain or a textbook Italian defensive performance....it was an Iceland team who just wanted it way much more.

What price democracy now. At the moment we have no opposition party. Boris Johnson did not bother to turn up at parliament yesterday. Probably busy writing his weekly column for the daily telegraph two hundred grand a year for one article per week.
All the brexit lies are being exposed, Farage is insulting all and sundry in Europe. That will help us negotiate a good exit deal not.
One half of the Tory party does not want any of the remain Tories to have a place in the new cabinet.
As nantwich quite rightly comments frightening times indeed.

Junkers is on borrowed time and he can say what he likes but he (or she) who pays the piper calls the tune and Frau Merkel is the major player. Whatever is fed out to the media be sure there will be diplomats working on it as we speak. It was always the way.

More haste less speed. Negotiations cannot start until a new PM and government are in place and a clear strategy has been agreed. I agree the uncertainty will continue until this happens but it is equally important that we do not waste any of the 2 years as there is much to unwind.

To be panicked into starting the clock ticking before we are ready would put us in the worst negotiating position. We need emotions to cool down too and pragmatism to take over as the EU realises that self harm is not a very good option. They have to balance the risk of Brexit contagion with seriously harming trade with their major export market. So the decision is between a possible and a certainty.

There are many non trading benefits the EU receives from Britain and I think after a lot of blustering and playing to the crowd they will strike a deal that will be a compromise as they have to be seen to be fair...something in the charter says as much. We are not a small country and we do not need to accept a Swiss or Norwegian model. We deserve our own deal as their largest market with no risk of contagion as the likes of Denmark. Sweden etc cannot match our buying power so could not negotiate the same deal as the UK.

Also the freedom of movement is causing problems in other countries as is schengen and immigration issues and we are one step from the next Euro crisis. EU banks are not in as good a state as UK ones and a trade war is not a sensible option in my view and so the unstable Junkers will go.

So the sooner Sir Humphrey gets in the back door the better.

I Wonder how Denmark and Sweden would react to that attitude?

What you are saying doesnt make sense, it assumes the EU will deliberately put themselves in a worse negotiating position for no benefit.

Whilst-ever the UK doesnt trigger article 50, the EU continues to have the deal with Britain that it wishes to have. If it continues to have this deal for ever more, this is a win for the EU

Britain isn't going to get a lot of traction with a threat of 'until you negotiate before we trigger article 50, we arent going to do that thing you dont want us to do'

The thing is, the EU would comfortably win a trade war. Whilst we do buy more from them than they from us, they are many, we are simply 1. We export 45% of our exports to the EU, yet we only constitute more 10% of exports for Ireland and Cyprus. Many countries in the EU, wouldnt lose all that much. Their risk is spread, ours is concentrated.

added to that is that the EU dont even know who they are supposed to be negotiating with, those who wanted out dont even know what they want, and the next prime minister will have a hostile parliament where the vast majority dont want to leave the EU and a very weak mandate for being the one to actually negotiate it. Personally i dont think article 50 could ever be triggered prior to a General Election which will be about a year away anyway;

You're arguing with people who work in FE and HE, over the definitions of FE and HE in an attempt to prove that you weren't wrong when you were.

Lovely stuff.