They didn't always have that, they built it. As we must.

There is plenty of things the game can do to raise its profile with more international games, international club games, and its general games but that requires a will and commitment to be something more than it is.

Correct, but the clubs are now wholly dependent on regular visits to Sky's foodbank. The sport has got used to no other way of existing.

Union has always had a strong high profile international competition which has produced packed stadiums bringing in regular steady high income. Much of this income was and still is invested in development at mini and junior levels. Once Union went professional the writing was on the wall and League was too complacent as it basked in the early success of Superleague. The RFL should have been more pro active in the days when Superleague on Sky attracted higher viewing figures and crowds than Union club games.

Union has come on in their professional era in leaps and bounds with players becoming much fitter and more skillful. As they first recruited League coaches and then players the product became much more attractive as a spectator sport and both crowds and Sky viewing figures increased followed by increases in the TV royalties and sponsorship. As a true national and international sport there as then only going to be one winner.

League had hung on in for a period because the product was more entertaining but once the combination of bad rule changes and the steady loss of our top players to both Union and NRL made worse by the failure to attract main Sponsors have left it threadbare with the result we now all can see.

IMO Union is now a far better product with high skill and fitness levels, real competition for possession at all breakdowns and a strength in depth of playing talent due to the strong development area that will see it continue to flourish.

Had Caddick invested more wisely and at a higher level in Union so that he had a side capable of competing at the very top then he would have needed a new stadium to house the crowds today.

Unless League can somehow produce/recruit 20 or 30 genuine class players plus some needed rule changes quickly then I fear our game will continue to decline with falling crowds and tv sponsorship. Meanwhile our top players will keep swopping codes and our youngsters will join local union clubs rather than League ones as they eye the higher earnings and profile.

I am really worried that the leadership of our game has left it all too late.

You are Chester Rhino aren't you William?

RU has always been the sport of the monied classes, it was the reason for the breakaway in 1895.
Its the reason why events are so well attended. people go to be seen & to network not necessarily to watch the game.
RU games are social occasions, the game itself is almost secondary.
RU has the press & media in its pocket.
Once it went officially professional there was only going to be one winner.
Particularly since RU has "tweaked" the laws to make the game faster & more of a spectacle &, therefore, more like RL.

GCHQ are currently recruiting.
You ought to apply.
You'll be a shoe-in.

Absolute rubbish even at their most successful when winning the Cup at Twickers the crowds weren't flocking to Headingley nor were there when players like Justin Marshell were signed it's a myth.

Perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part but as usual your bias against Union means you miss the point. Leeds have never had a squad remotely capable of competing against the top sides and getting into the lucrative European cup games and so have never attracted the sort of attendances available. Had this happened the crowds would have matched or overtaken the Rhinos. Yorkshire has a large network of Union clubs with large junior sections with lots of parents.

If the right quality of players were playing in a successful top of the table side then many of the Rhinos fans base would watch both teams and Union fans are prepared to travel for the right team. For example Wasps were unable to find a replacement stadium in the capital and relocated to Coventry where they average 14,000 and this is in the back yard of Leicester who average 22,000.

My point about needing a larger shared stadium is that there is an opportunity in the North to stage some of the bigger matches in both League and Union to bring in extra income while reducing costs for each club but both clubs need to be successful and one not a drain on the other.

Anyway this was an aside in my post and not a main point.

YCCC has been going longer than any sports club in the region & purports to represent the entire county yet it struggles (except for the T20 games vs Lancs) to get 5 figure crowds to any other one day format games.
Therefore, it is no surprise that the Leeds based RU team cannot achieve such crowds.
Leeds RU side has had national premiership success when it won the national KO cup a few years back but that did not lead to crowds approaching the size that JC imagined.
It seems to me that parochialism is entrenched in the local RU community & that is what has stymied any progress that Caddick & GH hoped would ensue the RU side.
Calling the club Yorkshire further alienated potential supporters.
Look at the crowds that the Newcastle Falcons get after a prolonged period in the premiership.
RL remains a northern "working class" sport. RU is largely a midlands & southern based middle & upper class sport.
The north/south divide is as real in rugby as it is in political & economic matters.

I have no bias against RU once again because someone disagrees you "assume" it's because of some imagined agenda.
Yer dreaming mate under its most successful run the Leeds RU simply didn't attract the crowds nor did having a side containing Springbok & All Black legends.
As for your assumption that many of the Rhinos fanbase would watch a top RU side again yer way off as proven by the lack off big attendences when at their previous best.

I agree with what rhino-mark is saying on the history, it wasn't what the yorkshire public wanted to see and didn't work out. However, I would hazard a guess that if it was repeated now, and although it pains me to say it, I think the Union side in a similar situation to previous would probably prove a success. There is no doubt that the attitude of a lot of dyed in the wool league fans has changed over the last few years towards union. And whilst our own game, and our own club, continues to dwindle as a product, the union game continues to gain.

Still not listening are you? I clearly said if Leeds had recruited a top of the table side getting European cup fixtures and that had this happened they would now be getting the crowds in. Leeds have never had this sort of side full of internationals like the current top four. You are basing you views on Leeds Carnegies somewhat second rate history of ten years ago.

What sort of attendance numbers were they doing when they were in the top flight and winning the Powergen cup?

You cannot compare cricket with rugby. Leeds Union sides have never had the necessary quality that I mentioned which would would need to include plenty of internationals like the current top four. As I said had we had a quality side and competed at the top and in Europe the crowds would have dramatically increased.

Do not underestimate the strength of Union in the north at club level with just over 100 flourishing clubs in Yorkshire where the game has been played since before 1869. They have won the county championship 15 times and been finalists 23 times the first in 1889 and the last in 2008. International touring sides have been visits the county since 1888 but sadly the lack of a suitable venue has seen this decline in recent years. Yorkshire and the north has been one of the strongest regions for producing rugby talent that become internationals. Caddick has invested about £9 million in Union in Leeds which is a little over half of that at either Newcastle and Sale and well below the top teams. So the reasons the crowds have been small is because the product is not good enough not because there are not enough Union fans in the region.

I'm there, cheers