| FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > James Child |
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| Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote: Superted "But in the real world, none of these things are likely to lead to positive discrimination taking place - sexual orientation can and does lead to both negative and positive discrimination... It's quite plausible for an organisation to give preferential treatment to show that they're not being discriminative - unfortunately that's the world we live in currently - the 'walk on eggshells' world where imbeciles like Smokey claim discrimination at the drop of a hat....'"
And can those alleging that has what's taken place in the case of Child prove it?
No, they can't.
Yet they will ask others to disprove it, and in the absence of anything to the contrary will scream that it's clearly the truth. |
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| Player Coach | 22777 |  |
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| May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: Superted "But in the real world, none of these things are likely to lead to positive discrimination taking place - sexual orientation can and does lead to both negative and positive discrimination... It's quite plausible for an organisation to give preferential treatment to show that they're not being discriminative - unfortunately that's the world we live in currently - the 'walk on eggshells' world where imbeciles like Smokey claim discrimination at the drop of a hat....'"
It isn't. Your premise is not plausible. It is not plausible that James Child gets the games he is given, is still a full time referee, or whatever the allegation wiggled to next, because of his sexuality. The lack of plausibility of such a thing requires strong evidence. That you think you may have anecdotal evidence of it happening does not mean A) it is such a regular occurrence that we can assume it a possibility with no further evidence or B) it is a plausible scenario in this case.
You aren't having to walk on eggshells at all. That is a pathetic argument. What you can't do, thankfully, is claim that a mans job and his achievements are not owned by him but because of his sexuality without good and convincing evidence. Because to do so is discrimination. That you think you no longer being able to make such accusations without good evidence is a bad thing says an awful lot about you. That you think YOU are the victim here by no longer being able to level baseless accusations says even more.
That both you and The Printer see positive discrimination as a scourge society needs protection from simply highlights the privilege you don't even know you have, and the privileged position from which you aren't even aware you are speaking. |
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "You see this paragraph here. It responds to nothing at all in the paragraph you quoted. That's because it isn't a response. Its your attempt to distract people.
No. Do you know the difference between falsifiable arguments and unfalsifiable arguments? Look it up and it will educate you to the childish fallacy you have fallen in to. It is impossible for me to prove it wrong because what you have made is an unfalsifiable argument. There is no evidence possible, no test, to statement, no number of confirming observations possible that could prove it. Even if we observed every single thing the RFL and James Child had ever done, it still wouldn't prove the negative you are not only asking for proof for, but using that absence of proof as an argument in your favour.
That is why it is incumbent on you to prove your allegation or retract it.
An example of the silliness of your argument is the famous argument called Russell's teapot. I could claim that there is a giant teapot somewhere orbiting the earth. You cannot disprove that. There is no level of evidence that you could create that would disprove that. Yet it would be idiotic for any of us to believe that it exists.'"
True, you couldn't disprove it. So you couldn't sit there and say it's not possible........however you are saying Child being positively discriminated is not possible.
Quote: SmokeyTA "The fact he has a beard is known
the fact he is called James is known
the fact he has a birthday in July is known
the fact he is 32 years old is known
the fact he is a member of the Dewsbury and Batley referees society is known
the fact he a Super League referee is known
the fact he is a chartered surveyer is known
in fact we actually have real and tangible evidence of these things, far more proof than we have that he is even actually a homosexual.
That these things are known does not mean that it is reasonable to assume any of them have any effect on his appointments.'"
Yes but someone's name being James or being born in July has never had an influence in the way someone could be treated. Homosexuality has a proven history of discrimination in the workplace, mostly negatively but only you have your head in the clouds to think it doesn't happen positively.
To put sexuality on a par with a month of the year or a first name with potentially influencing how an employer could act is showing gross lack of knowledge on your part and living in a dream world of sunshine and rainbows that has no resemblance to the actual real world. |
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "And can those alleging that has what's taken place in the case of Child prove it?
No, they can't.
Yet they will ask others to disprove it, and in the absence of anything to the contrary will scream that it's clearly the truth.'"
But for the 57th time for the hard of reading.......I'VE NOT SAID IT'S CLEARLY THE TRUTH.
Dumbasses can't tell the difference between what an opinion is and what a fact is. |
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "That both you and The Printer see positive discrimination as a scourge society needs protection from simply highlights the privilege you don't even know you have, and the privileged position from which you aren't even aware you are speaking.'"
It's not a "scourge of society" but neither is it just ok.
What would your opinion be if you went for a job and they offered it to a black man because they wanted to look inclusive, yet you were a ten times more qualified and suitable candidate?
Would you just toddle off home and say "oh well that's ok"......would you have been treated equal? Would the black man have been judged solely on his ability instead of his skin colour? |
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| Player Coach | 22777 | |
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| May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
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Quote: ThePrinter "True, you couldn't disprove it. So you couldn't sit there and say it's not possible........however you are saying Child being positively discriminated is not possible.
'" yes numbnuts, because as has just been explained in great depth to you. It would be idiotic for us to assume unfalsifiable arguments we cannot disprove are true. It is incumbent on those making the arguments to prove them. Something you have singularly and fairly spectacularly been unable to do despite over 30 pages of opportunity.
Quote: ThePrinter "Yes but someone's name being James or being born in July has never had an influence in the way someone could be treated. Homosexuality has a proven history of discrimination in the workplace, mostly negatively but only you have your head in the clouds to think it doesn't happen positively.
To put sexuality on a par with a month of the year or a first name with potentially influencing how an employer could act is showing gross lack of knowledge on your part and living in a dream world of sunshine and rainbows that has no resemblance to the actual real world.'"
Uh oh, looks like you fell in to the not very subtly laid trap.
It is demonstrably and statistically proven that children born in the summer have less involvement within elite sport. RAE or the Relative Age Effect is a statistically significant correlation between the month of birth and participation in elite sport.
It has such an effect that our very own Jamie Jones-Buchanan has argued clearly and eruditely of the disadvantages he was subject due to his birth date being the 1st of August. Even to the point where he has argued that it is imperative that we change our youth structures to divide youngsters by height and weight and not by birthdate (whats that I hear, an action requiring uneven effort to promote equality)
There is a clear and proven statistical correlation, in our game, between birthdate and chances of participating the top levels of our game.
bit of supporting evidence for you ( I know that's a dirty word for you)
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18891749
Perhaps this is positive discrimination due to birthdate? |
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Quote: ThePrinter "True, you couldn't disprove it. So you couldn't sit there and say it's not possible........however you are saying Child being positively discriminated is not possible.
'" yes numbnuts, because as has just been explained in great depth to you. It would be idiotic for us to assume unfalsifiable arguments we cannot disprove are true. It is incumbent on those making the arguments to prove them. Something you have singularly and fairly spectacularly been unable to do despite over 30 pages of opportunity.
Quote: ThePrinter "Yes but someone's name being James or being born in July has never had an influence in the way someone could be treated. Homosexuality has a proven history of discrimination in the workplace, mostly negatively but only you have your head in the clouds to think it doesn't happen positively.
To put sexuality on a par with a month of the year or a first name with potentially influencing how an employer could act is showing gross lack of knowledge on your part and living in a dream world of sunshine and rainbows that has no resemblance to the actual real world.'"
Uh oh, looks like you fell in to the not very subtly laid trap.
It is demonstrably and statistically proven that children born in the summer have less involvement within elite sport. RAE or the Relative Age Effect is a statistically significant correlation between the month of birth and participation in elite sport.
It has such an effect that our very own Jamie Jones-Buchanan has argued clearly and eruditely of the disadvantages he was subject due to his birth date being the 1st of August. Even to the point where he has argued that it is imperative that we change our youth structures to divide youngsters by height and weight and not by birthdate (whats that I hear, an action requiring uneven effort to promote equality)
There is a clear and proven statistical correlation, in our game, between birthdate and chances of participating the top levels of our game.
bit of supporting evidence for you ( I know that's a dirty word for you)
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18891749
Perhaps this is positive discrimination due to birthdate? | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 22777 | |
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| May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "It's not a "scourge of society" but neither is it just ok.
What would your opinion be if you went for a job and they offered it to a black man because they wanted to look inclusive, yet you were a ten times more qualified and suitable candidate?
Would you just toddle off home and say "oh well that's ok"......would you have been treated equal? Would the black man have been judged solely on his ability instead of his skin colour?'" Such a thing would be illegal.
also if such a thing were to happen (which it doesn't with any kind of regularity because well...such a thing is illegal) how am I supposed to know I am ten times more qualified than said black man? How am I to know he has been employed solely on his skin colour?
Am I to assume this was the case? Because I would require some pretty strong evidence that such a thing had happened before I decided that this person had been employed over me on the colour of his skin.
Especially as it is, unfortunately, far far far more likely that I would get the job instead of him because of his skin colour. |
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "yes numbnuts, because as has just been explained in great depth to you. It would be idiotic for us to assume unfalsifiable arguments we cannot disprove are true. It is incumbent on those making the arguments to prove them. Something you have singularly and fairly spectacularly been unable to do despite over 30 pages of opportunity.
Uh oh, looks like you fell in to the not very subtly laid trap.
It is demonstrably and statistically proven that children born in the summer have less involvement within elite sport. RAE or the Relative Age Effect is a statistically significant correlation between the month of birth and participation in elite sport.
It has such an effect that our very own Jamie Jones-Buchanan has argued clearly and eruditely of the disadvantages he was subject due to his birth date being the 1st of August. Even to the point where he has argued that it is imperative that we change our youth structures to divide youngsters by height and weight and not by birthdate (whats that I hear, an action requiring uneven effort to promote equality)
There is a clear and proven statistical correlation, in our game, between birthdate and chances of participating the top levels of our game.
bit of supporting evidence for you ( I know that's a dirty word for you)
You haven't set a trap (you're obsessed with trying to convince yourself you've set traps and caught us out)
You've just continued to embarrass yourself by again trying to put sexuality/race/gender on a par with a month of the year in how people view and treat them. Can't recall ever seeing a July Pride March.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 22777 | |
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| May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "You haven't set a trap (you're obsessed with trying to convince yourself you've set traps and caught us out)
You've just continued to embarrass yourself by again trying to put sexuality/race/gender on a par with a month of the year in how people view and treat them. Can't recall ever seeing a July Pride March.'"
What has Pride got to do with anything?
I haven't put them on par at all. I haven't commented on the relative importance of any of them. Why are you now bringing race and gender in to it? I haven't mentioned race or gender, according to you when people bring in other examples it is because they cant make the opposite argument.
What I have done is shown you that there is clear and obvious discrimination by elite sport against those born in the summer months. I have shown you examples of where positive action to address this in our own sport has been suggested by a respected figure within our game.
I have in fact proven the things you have relied on hearsay for. I have in fact met a far higher standard of evidence than you have.
At this point, your logic states that it is now up to you to prove my claim false, or accept it is true. |
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "I haven't put them on par at all. I haven't commented on the relative importance of any of them.'"
You have though. You've continuously said on the thread that it is JUST AS LIKELY to be one of these "million other reasons" than it being because of homosexuality. That's putting them on a par, when realistically anybody who doesn't live with their head in the clouds but rather the real world knows those reasons are nowhere near as likely. |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "You have though. You've continuously said on the thread that it is JUST AS LIKELY to be one of these "million other reasons" than it being because of homosexuality. That's putting them on a par, when realistically anybody who doesn't live with their head in the clouds but rather the real world knows those reasons are nowhere near as likely.'"
You are far more likely to win a game of heads or tails than you are the lottery. Only a real moron would confuse likelihood and importance.
Besides your own preconceptions and prejudice, Where is your evidence that things aren't as likely?
I see you have chosen to only respond to one line in isolation as well, makes this statement look a little silly doesn't it Quote: ThePrinter "No I answered everything you wrote, because that's what I do, I actually read what other people write and respond to what they wrote.
I'm not like yourself or others who use little rants like this to disguise the fact that you won't/can't reply to what I wrote.
'" |
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Still guessing in tonight's game
It's a shame he was promoted above those in his peer group who were rated higher, who knows if they would have continued to progress at higher levels but there dos seem to be a bit of a problem with selection being based on personalties rather than pure performance. I've seen refs get called up into the lower leagues based on injury or fitness test issues and get good reviews from the clubs, even to the point where the clubs are requesting the ref gets more games, but then when injuries and fitness are not a problem the same faces get their jobs back. When we have so little in terms of numbers it's sad to see things that can put off even the most enthusiastic.
I think there is a problem with a clique of referees forming, not helped that there are limited number of pro refs and they are always going to be those who don't have a better career elsewhere already, and with the increasing number of those getting moved upstairs into other roles there is too much emphasis on covering each others backs and pretending problems don't exist. Goo refs can emerge despite this system but I think more would do so with a better one. "Outside" management should be prioritised.
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Can't be d reading all the pages of drivel who has won the d|ck measuring competition? Or is it still ongoing?
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| International Star | 11412 | No
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "You are far more likely to win a game of heads or tails than you are the lottery. Only a real moron would confuse likelihood and importance.
Besides your own preconceptions and prejudice, Where is your evidence that things aren't as likely?
I see you have chosen to only respond to one line in isolation as well, makes this statement look a little silly doesn't it'"
You think being born in July is just as likely as sexuality to result in discrimination......oh dear. |
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Having another stormer
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