I hate to point this out to you Gareth, but petrol has gone over £1 a litre and we no longer have a Labour government.

Sport is about looking ahead and planning for the future, not about offering contracts on the basis of past glories. What these players achieved in 2007-2009 should have had absolutely no bearing on recruitment/retention for 2011 and beyond.

McDermott's inherited a group of players with all the hunger of Mr Creosote when presented with a wafer-thin mint.

That's opinion, and I'm afraid I don't buy it. the look on JJB's face stood in the dug-out, or Sinfield's expression as he came off the field, to name but two, didn't suggest a lack of hunger.

I also saw little evidence of a lack of effort in Friday's performance. Plenty of evidence of being disorganised and short of focus. Players do take some blame for that, but the coach does too. Past glories or not, I still believe (also opinion, of course) that there is a blend of experience and young talent in this Leeds squad which, while I don't think makes it a real title contender, is capable of much better than this.

Disagree. the majority of the squad are winners. I think they still want to be winners. Prior to last Friday JJB had made 80 tackles in 2 games. That doesn't strike me as a player not hungry.

What about the players Mcdermott inherited at Harlequins? Are we just ignoring his track record there as irrelevant?

Defence is at least 50% hunger and enthusiasm to put your body on the line so you don't let down the bloke next to you in the defensive line, particularly goal-line defence.

If you think Leeds aren't lacking in effort then fair enough, that's your opinion. It's not one I share mind. Even with a fairly mediocre defensive structure you can cover up the cracks by being prepared to work that bit harder. I don't see too many Leeds players being prepared to put in the sort of shift required, and haven't for the last 12 months or so (occasional displays such as Wigan away in the playoffs apart).

Wasn't his job at Quins to rebuild the team after a lot of outward traffic? where he was also instructed to increase the number of young british players in the team?

In other words a rebuilding job replacing past it players.

So if they still want to be winners, why are they heading backwards in their individual and collective development at a rate of knots if it's not through lack of application? Players don't suddenly forget how to tackle, or how to communicate in defence, yet it appears this lot have. If it's not collective attitude and desire then what is it?

His Harlequins record is about as relevant as Leeds 2007-2009 GF wins to current form, so feel free to introduce it if you think it helps you.

Andy, I am a simple man. I've seen these players do what no on else in SL has done before.

I've seen these coaches fail badly at their previous clubs. I'd be happy for you to persuade me that the coaches are not in some way to blame for the sorry state of performances. Telling me the past track record of a coach is irrelevant is not convincing me.

What is convincing me is....

"Defence will sort itself out"
"Completion rates are unimportant"
"Watch me flick this rubber glove fellas"

As I said elsewhere I don't think we're the best team in the league any more and I doubt we've the players to win it this year but my view is competent coaches could improve this team by some distance.

If you judge coaches on results, the evidence is in for Lowes and McDermott. If you judge them on improving the teams performances, the results are in.

Just what are you judging them on to conclude the current malaise is not down to them, btw?

Absolutely no question whatsoever.

There is many questions to that. It is not that simple, and my own opinion as I have repeated several times is that had Wayne Bennett been here with the same players and the same injuries, we would still be struggling for a top 4 place.

It's very simple - good coaches get more out of their team than bad coaches do.

McDermott and Lowes are bad coaches. Good coaches would do better.

The way Leeds have approached games this season reeks of bad coaching, flinging the ball around aimlessly before putting in some hard work and moving forward.

What a simplistic way of looking at it.

We had a guy coaching us who was a world cup winner and won two super league titles and a world club championship. How many other of these good coaches that you speak of have a record like that?

That same coach could only get us to sneak into fourth place last season on the last game of the season. It was a team going backwards rapidly. He saw the situation and left before his CV was effected this year.

But you still blame the new coach?

It may well turn out that McDemott is a poor coach as you put it, but that certainly is not the reason for the current Leeds situation.

Rubbish. Love to see you say that to the players.

Well said

I'm not "blaming" the new coach, I'm saying there is nothing to suggest he is a top coach and a top coach would do better; it's what top coaches do. His assistant is a proven shocker of a coach too.

They looked bizarre appointments when they happened and they are being proven to be so with every week that passes.

So what's the explanation for last year when the older players were a year younger?