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| Quote loinertillidie="loinertillidie"Not all of them have benevolent millionaires and well qualified financial personnel, good fan bases and marketable brands to help them develop the necessary infrastructure to begin to grow.
The leg up's are going to have to continue for a while yet before you see other clubs repreating what Leeds and Saints have done.
It's all very well picking on "Out of Townie, glory hunting bandwagonners" but the truth remains the same. Once supporters get their heads around the idea that a visit from Leeds and Saints is 1) More likely to be on Sky and 2) Is going to result in a kicking, then I should imagine they shall make the sensible decision given the current economic climate that for a family of four the £60 plus sundries is best spent elsewhere. You don't need many £60's to represent a lot of lost revenue for the clubs in involved.
It's nice to see Leeds doing well. And unlike some of the more regular posters on here I have done my apprenticeship of supporting a dour Leeds team in the rain and snow on the wrong side of the Pennines. I have done my time watching sodden Alliance matches. What I can also remember thinking is why the hell was I doing it when all the available silverware with the exception of the Yorkshire cup was all going one way? And even then Leeds seemed determined to let Cas and Fax have that too.
You may feel that that's just tough titties on the opposition fans, but whilst you're bathing in your reflected glory it makes it harder for those of us trying to get new blood into the game. There is already a feeling that unless you play for the "big 4" you're never going to win anything. So there is no incentive for local players to play for their local clubs. They all want to leave and go and play elsewhere. So it makes it hard to keep them in academies long enough to make first grade.'" With the greatest of respect, that is claptrap.
What leg ups' do you refer to? We have an even playing field. We're capped. Leeds may have a wealthy backer but it is a lazy and incorrect assumption that his backing has resulted in our success. He hasn't subsidised us like he did the Tykes. What he did was put in place excellent, and stringent, business plans.
We're not the ones that have breached the salary cap, remember that. Many clubs without a wealthy backer have done so. If clubs want to follow Leeda and St Helens blueprint they should not be splashing the cash, unless it involves a serious investment in junior development. How did Mr Whelans' approach aid Wigan?
I find it weird you would say teams getting a kicking from Leeds and Saints would put fans off after a season where many teams actually beat us. Did Salford fans flock to the Willows in their droves after they beat Leeds and Saints this year? Oh, and Salford, with their lousy crowds, wealthy backer and potentially massive fan base appear to contradict your assumptions.
Who are the "big four" that you speak of that are going to win everything? Does it include Warrington or Huddersfield? Does it include Catalan or Wigan?
Why would local lads be put off signing for a club because of Leeds and St Helen's success? Leeds and St helens are a shining beacon of how you should utilise young English players. If more clubs followed suit young English players would have better career paths within the game. | | |
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| Quote G1="G1"With the greatest of respect, that is claptrap.
What leg ups' do you refer to? Ask HHT, he'll tell you. We have an even playing field. We're capped. Leeds may have a wealthy backer but it is a lazy and incorrect assumption that his backing has resulted in our success. The combination of his experience and that of GH has resulted int he "excellent" and "stringent" business plans to which you refer. He hasn't subsidised us like he did the Tykes. What he did was put in place excellent, and stringent, business plans.
We're not the ones that have breached the salary cap, remember that. Many clubs without a wealthy backer have done so. If clubs want to follow Leeds and St Helens blueprint they should not be splashing the cash, unless it involves a serious investment in junior development. How did Mr Whelans' approach aid Wigan? I agree with the need to develop youth, however up until now the risk of relegation and the uncertainty that comes with it has made that impossible. the breaches of Salary cap to which you refer were in the one instance designed to survive in the top flight and the other due to blatent cheating. If you look again at my post I do not say that the "sugar daddy" approach is any good, but that the need for financial experience is required too.
I find it weird you would say teams getting a kicking from Leeds and Saints would put fans off after a season where many teams actually beat us. Did Salford fans flock to the Willows in their droves after they beat Leeds and Saints this year? Oh, and Salford, with their lousy crowds, wealthy backer and potentially massive fan base appear to contradict your assumptions. No, because as most people realise, Salford beating an understrength Leeds side means nothing. Would the fans come back after a sustained run of success, I reckon they would. Again, just because you can run a successful business in another arena does not mean you can necessarily make it in the leisure industry.
Who are the "big four" that you speak of that are going to win everything? Does it include Warrington or Huddersfield? Does it include Catalan or Wigan? I refer to the clubs who are not going to win anything more than those who shall. Your Salford's , Cas's, Wakefields, Quins and since the licence process kicked in, every other club outside of the top half of SL.
Why would local lads be put off signing for a club because of Leeds and St Helen's success? Leeds and St helens are a shining beacon of how you should utilise young English players. If more clubs followed suit young English players would have better career paths within the game. Don't be such a sanctimonious provocateur G1, young players aren't able to manipluate or change the way clubs are run, all they want to do is enjoy their careers and make a success of themselves. they won't stick with local clubs if to do so means they lose all opportunity to do so. IF more clubs followed the Leeds blueprint, YES you're right, more players would have better career paths. However the infrastructure to do so is lightyears away. And a period of two club dominance is not going to help that one iota.'" | | | |
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| International Board Member | 22289 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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| The new up to date figures to reflect and include the 2009 Final
Quote tvoc="tvoc"SL Grand Final Stats:
Teams
Most Appearances: 7 - St Helens
Most Wins: 4 - Leeds, St Helens
Most Defeats: 3 - Bradford, St Helens, Wigan
Most Consecutive Appearances: 5 - Bradford
Most Consecutive Wins: 3 - Leeds
Most Consecutive Defeats: 3 - St Helens
Coaches
Most Appearances: 5 - Brian Noble
Most Wins: 3 - Brian Noble
Most Defeats: 2 - Daniel Anderson, Brian Noble
Most Consecutive Appearances: 5 - Brian Noble
Most Consecutive Wins: 2 - Brian McClennan
Most Consecutive Defeats: 2 - Daniel Anderson
Players
Most Appearances: 9 - Leon Pryce
Most Starting Appearances: 8 - Jamie Peacock
Most Substitute Appearances: 4 - Paul Anderson, Maurie Fa'asavalu, Ali Lauitiiti, James Roby
Most Wins: 6 - Jamie Peacock
Most Defeats: 5 - Lee Gilmour, Leon Pryce
Most Tries: 4 - Danny McGuire, Lee Smith, Michael Withers
Most Goals: 17 - Kevin Sinfield
Most Drop Goals: 2 - Rob Burrow
Most Points: 35 - Kevin Sinfield
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| Quote loinertillidie="loinertillidie"Ask HHT, he'll tell you.'" Why can't you tell me? What are these leg ups you speak of?
Quote loinertillidieThe combination of his experience and that of GH has resulted int he "excellent" and "stringent" business plans to which you refer'" Indeed but that is not the picture you were painting. You were talking about Sugar Daddies buying success. That is not the path either Leeds or St Helens have trodden.
Quote loinertillidieI agree with the need to develop youth, however up until now the risk of relegation and the uncertainty that comes with it has made that impossible. the breaches of Salary cap to which you refer were in the one instance designed to survive in the top flight and the other due to blatent cheating. If you look again at my post I do not say that the "sugar daddy" approach is any good, but that the need for financial experience is required too.
'" The pioneers of Sl and one of its' most succesful clubs, the Bulls, have NEVER had a suggar daddy.
Quote loinertillidieI refer to the clubs who are not going to win anything more than those who shall. Your Salford's , Cas's, Wakefields, Quins and since the licence process kicked in, every other club outside of the top half of SL.
'" Hmmm. So you've named 4 out of 14 clubs that will, according to you, not win anything. Then you say the bottom half, presumably, the bottom 7? Seems very confusing? Still waiting to hear who this big four are?
Quote loinertillidieDon't be such a sanctimonious provocateur G1'" Ok, stop spouting baseless, overly dramatic ramblings then.
Quote loinertillidieyoung players aren't able to manipluate or change the way clubs are run, all they want to do is enjoy their careers and make a success of themselves. they won't stick with local clubs if to do so means they lose all opportunity to do so. IF more clubs followed the Leeds blueprint, YES you're right, more players would have better career paths. However the infrastructure to do so is lightyears away. And a period of two club dominance is not going to help that one iota.'" Is there any evidence that this is occurring? Are you talking local amateur players or young SL players?
Where are all these talented hot SL players migrating to St Helens and Leeds that you speak of?
Lets look at one of the hottest properties in the game right now, Richie Myler. He happily signed for and played for Salford. They decided to sell him, very profitably, but his destination wasn't Leeds or St Helens, it was Warrington. Were they in your big 4 btw?
BTW, have you heard of the RFL's service area regulations? Where do they fit into your predictions of doom and gloom that will befall us if Leeds should win next year's GF? | | |
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| Club Owner | 5848 | No
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| Quote tvoc="tvoc"The new up to date figures to reflect and include the 2009 Final'"
Cheers  | | | |
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| Quote G1="G1"Why can't you tell me? What are these leg ups you speak of?
Indeed but that is not the picture you were painting. You were talking about Sugar Daddies buying success. That is not the path either Leeds or St Helens have trodden.
The pioneers of Sl and one of its' most succesful clubs, the Bulls, have NEVER had a suggar daddy.
Hmmm. So you've named 4 out of 14 clubs that will, according to you, not win anything. Then you say the bottom half, presumably, the bottom 7? Seems very confusing? Still waiting to hear who this big four are?
Ok, stop spouting baseless, overly dramatic ramblings then.
Is there any evidence that this is occurring? Are you talking local amateur players or young SL players?
Where are all these talented hot SL players migrating to St Helens and Leeds that you speak of?
Lets look at one of the hottest properties in the game right now, Richie Myler. He happily signed for and played for Salford. They decided to sell him, very profitably, but his destination wasn't Leeds or St Helens, it was Warrington. Were they in your big 4 btw?
BTW, have you heard of the RFL's service area regulations? Where do they fit into your predictions of doom and gloom that will befall us if Leeds should win next year's GF?'"
Quote G1="G1"Its' very easy for an out of townie bandwagon glory hunter to take such a dispassionate view and put the good of the game ahead of success for the Rhinos.
Personally, I'd like things to carry on as they are for a whee while longer. This club, and its' devoted fans, deserve a little longer in the sun.'"
Good of the game. | | |
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That it?
"Good of the game".
Well, you have me convinced. I withdraw all my previous questions and concerns. I am converted.
The game will indeed be damaged and juniors will indeed refuse to play for their local clubs if Leeds win another GF.
We can not, nay must not, allow this to happen. Any Leeds fans who derive any sense of satisfaction from such happenings should be burned at the stake for heresy.
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| International Board Member | 22289 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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It's back with Ryan Bailey making his 200th Appearance for Leeds if he plays tonight.
He will become the 8th Leeds player to do so in the SL Era (All Comps) and all the previous seven still remain at the club in one capacity or another.
Jones-Buchanan will shortly become the 9th, he currently stands on 198
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| Player Coach | 7376 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Mar 2008 | 17 years | |
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love this tvoc cheers
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote lionarmour87="lionarmour87"love this tvoc cheers'"
No worries, you and me both.
Here's one from early season that slipped under the radar.
Ali Lauitiiti has now become Leeds' most prolific bench warmer of the SL Era. Another title to sit alongside his most Appearances by an Antipodean.
Leeds Substitute Appearances (SL Era - All Comps):
1 - Ali Lauitiiti 103
2 - Jamie Mathiou 100
3 - Willie Poching 89
4 - Barrie McDermott 78
5 - Ryan Bailey 74
6 - Rob Burrow 72
=7 - Jamie Jones-Buchanan 61
=7 - Nick Scruton 61
9 - Danny Ward 54
10 - Wayne McDonald 52 | | |
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| International Chairman | 14490 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote tvoc="tvoc"No worries, you and me both.
Here's one from early season that slipped under the radar.
Ali Lauitiiti has now become Leeds' most prolific bench warmer of the SL Era. Another title to sit alongside his most Appearances by an Antipodean.
Leeds Substitute Appearances (SL Era - All Comps):
1 - Ali Lauitiiti 103
2 - Jamie Mathiou 100
3 - Willie Poching 89
4 - Barrie McDermott 78
5 - Ryan Bailey 74
6 - Rob Burrow 72
=7 - Jamie Jones-Buchanan 61
=7 - Nick Scruton 61
9 - Danny Ward 54
10 - Wayne McDonald 52'"
I would guess by the way that Sub are used, that Ali is the greatest replacement ever ? | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 22289 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote AdmiralHanson="AdmiralHanson"I would guess by the way that Sub are used, that Ali is the greatest replacement ever ?'"
All those totals are 'Substitute Appearances' where they took part in the game at some stage off the bench.
Here's a complete list of 'Non Playing Substitute' appearances for Leeds in the SL Era (All Comps):
3 - Marvin Golden, Adam Hughes, Marcus St Hilaire
2 - Andy Kirk, Danny McGuire, Simon Worrall
1 - Danny Allan, Gavin Brown, Rob Burrow, Mark Calderwood, Bradley Clyde, Anthony Gibbons, David Gibbons, Damian Gibson, Iestyn Harris, Dean Lawford, Gareth Morton, Jason Netherton, Jamie Peacock, Karl Pratt, Gareth Raynor, John Riley, Marcus Vassilakopoulos, Chev Walker | | | |
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