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FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Salford vs Leeds, Friday 9th August, 8pm
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Quote: BrisbaneRhino "Not sure that's correct - there are certainly more close high quality games here than SL. Part of the problem though is the same issue - e.g. the Eels this year have rolled over the minute they've gone behind in every game, and the Tigers have looked like they've been going through the motions as well (led by Marshall who seems completely unwilling to put his body on the line in attack or defence).

But I also have a feeling that ATM the entire game itself is slightly off kilter. Not sure exactly if I could put my finger on the reasons, but it seems to me that unless both teams are near equal in ability we see blowout scores which in the past could have been prevented by simple effort.

In general it seems that teams are rewarded far more for zero errors than taking a chance. If I was a coach I'd never want my players to try to charge down kicks or try a short kickoff or chip and chase unless desperate for example.

So I do think some rule changes are in order - given how good kickers are nowadays I think we should consider rewarding defences more for diffusing kicks in goal by giving the defending team possession for all kicks diffused in goal from within 20m, and possibly look more radically at issues like 5m instead of 10. I'd also definitely allow stealing in the tackle of all kinds to come back, allow defenders to strike for the ball at the PTB and treat charge-downs as not having been touched by the defender (i.e. if the attacking side gets the ball back the tackle count doesn't restart). I'd also lose the whole voluntary tackle cr*p.

Probably most of the above would be disasters, but I think a thorough review of the rules which really affect the flow of the game might be needed sooner rather than later. We tend to see individual rules tinkered with which have unexpected consequences some time after they are changed, rather than look at the game in its entirety and then properly test out rules over time.'"

Rule tweaks could provide an answer. The problem with RL is that any weakness in a team can result in a very big score. The margins are very small. This not only affects top level clubs but those further down the league structure. It can be hard for new players / fans coming to the game to understand that a 50, 60pt loss is the result of only a few weaknesses

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The squad in full is:

1. Zak Hardaker
2. Ben Jones-Bishop
3. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
7. Rob Burrow
8. Kylie Leuluai
9. Paul McShane
10. Jamie Peacock
12. Carl Ablett
13. Kevin Sinfield (c)
16. Ryan Bailey
17. Ian Kirke
18. Chris Clarkson
21. Richard Moore
22. Jimmy Keinhorst
23. Brad Singleton
26. Liam Sutcliffe
30. Alex Foster
31. Elliot Minchella

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Quote: MattyLeeds "The squad in full is

Thought Bailey was another week away according to McDermott?
Probably play Keinhorst for Moon with Foster and Bailey missing out of the 19.

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I think it may be Foster and Minchella missing out of that line up if Brad is fully fit, if he's still waiting on fitness and fails then Foster in for him. And likewise Bailey in or out if also waiting for late fitness test, but think one of Brad/Bailey will be in team, coaches wouldn't keep two players in the squad on a maybe can play basis???

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Quote: Rugbyfann "I think it may be Foster and Minchella missing out of that line up if Brad is fully fit, if he's still waiting on fitness and fails then Foster in for him. And likewise Bailey in or out if also waiting for late fitness test, but think one of Brad/Bailey will be in team, coaches wouldn't keep two players in the squad on a maybe can play basis???'"


Bailey's definitely not playing, and Minchella will play if Foster doesn't pass his fitness test

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Quote: Gotcha "If Moon is out, that is a bit of a blow. Hope they put Ablett back there. He hasn't been performing with any great shakes in the back row lately, and other than switching Hardaker to centre there is no other option worthy.'"


yes keinhorst hall partnership has been terrible has it not maybe count their games and try ratio d040.gif

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Quote: Maximillion "yes keinhorst hall partnership has been terrible has it not maybe count their games and try ratio
Keinhorst is terrible, correct.

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Gotcha has a thing about Keinhorst and won't let it go.

TBH Moon and Hall haven't combined too well this season, Hall has received a lot of last resort offloads. I think Keinhorst is more a wingers man and will give Hall the ball early to do his thing.

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Quote: rugbyleague88 "

TBH Moon and Hall haven't combined too well this season, Hall has received a lot of last resort offloads. I think Keinhorst is more a wingers man and will give Hall the ball early to do his thing.'"



icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif WTF, is this for real icon_lol.gif

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I'm not saying Keinhorst is better, just that Hall has struggled outside Moon. Moon is very good at attacking the line but the standard of ball he has given Hall this season has not been that great.

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Quote: Gotcha "icon_lol.gif It's nailed on. Moon's service to Hall hasn't been great. It's getting better, but still isn't as good as the service Hall has received from his previous centres including Ablett. It's no coincidence that a winger who has topped 30 tries each season for three years in a row is on 14 at present.

Moon is a good player, better than Keinhorst no doubt, but his service to Hall is no better than Keinhorsts.

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Quote: G1 "It's nailed on. Moon's service to Hall hasn't been great. It's getting better, but still isn't as good as the service Hall has received from his previous centres including Ablett. It's no coincidence that a winger who has topped 30 tries each season for three years in a row is on 14 at present.

Moon is a good player, better than Keinhorst no doubt, but his service to Hall is no better than Keinhorsts.'"



Other than Peacock who is a shoe in, Moon will be the closest other Leeds Rhinos player to a dream team spot this year.

Hall has been to blame on a lot of those occasions you are alluding to. They have only been together for 20 odd games.

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Quote: rugbyleague88 "Gotcha has a thing about Keinhorst and won't let it go.

TBH Moon and Hall haven't combined too well this season, Hall has received a lot of last resort offloads. I think Keinhorst is more a wingers man and will give Hall the ball early to do his thing.'"

Whilst I'm not Keinhorst's biggest fan, I agree with you about Moon's "last resort" offloads.
The round-the-back cocktail-shaker offloads to empty space are like watching Richie Blackmore sometimes.

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Quote: Gotcha "
Hall has been to blame on a lot of those occasions you are alluding to.'"
The same Ryan Hall you said had a bad game at London last week?

Erm, OK.

Moon is a good player. I like him. He's an offensive threat. But his service to Hall is a million miles behind Seniors and Abletts and is no better than Keinhorst.

As you say, it's early in their partnership and I hope to see it improve. That doesn't negate that it has been below par up to press.

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Quote: G1 "The same Ryan Hall you said had a bad game at London last week?

Erm, OK.

Moon is a good player. I like him. He's an offensive threat. But his service to Hall is a million miles behind Seniors and Abletts and is no better than Keinhorst.

As you say, it's early in their partnership and I hope to see it improve. That doesn't negate that it has been below par up to press.'"



And yet it's funny how we had the same sort of comments when Hardaker was his centre too. Yet he got more tries with Hardaker there then he did with Ablett there.

Nobody his going to give it like Senior in his prime, he even made Cummins look the worlds best. Moon has a lot of other qualities, and it is up to Hall to think faster on some of those occassions to make sure he benefits.

He can't have all the praise when it's all laid on a plate for him, and then get all the excuses when it's not.

Compare and contrast to last week at London, on the right side of the field. BJB was fully understanding what Watkins was doing.

Back to Keinhorst, how many did he lay on for Hall then?

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