You didn't see the Wakefield - Huddersfield game, did you Andy Gilder? In fact, exactly how much have you seen of Smith in the flesh since he was cut by Leeds ? Somewhere not far off "none at all" I'll wager?

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It's all relative but Smith was never a quickie so difficult to judge him on pace. Could slot in anywhere in the back division and played efficiently at acting half when asked to do so. Could have been an invaluable substitute when all backs available acting as relief hooker/cover for any in game three-quarter issues.

He was fit on Sunday but would he have been fit two days earlier; Friday? By fit, I mean healthy for selection because he hasn't looked fit since he left for Wasps.

lee smith left the rhinos to play rugger with wasps
as posted previously he was a very much larger shadow of his former self when he returned although never the same quality player that left

Vickery can supposedly play full back or centre as well as wing. I'm pretty sure he has said he prefers fullback.

I'd be tempted to give one of the younger players (wing or fullback) a bench spot against Sts, as we are one more injury away from having to throw someone in at the deep end. I'd prefer Watkins to stay at right centre as well, but our strongest backline with current in juries is the one that played the Storm.

If so it doesn't reflect too well on Leeds' planned recruitment

The club must be very extremely grateful for the individual initiative of a young man who thankfully chose Leeds to offer his services to

Your neglecting the fact that a player may not want to be a reserve at Leeds, and wants to play games. Your also neglecting the fact that Smith will have been on a fair chunk of salary cap, and to lose a decent wedge on a player not in the strongest 17 would be counter productive.

Yes, if he had stayed, he would have improved our squad these last few weeks, but then we may not have been able to afford the strength in depth of squad we have this year

As Lee Smith was under contract at Leeds for the 2013 season that money was already allocated at the time he was released. I've no idea who instigated the departure be it player or club or what the financial severance details were or their implication on the cap.

He would still have been around my 1st choice 17 for 2013 but so would Shaun Lunt, so I accept the argument that he (like others have done) would opt for regular 1st team rugby.



Strength in depth?

Even from just last season's squad Leeds have lost Lunt, Webb, Smith, Hauraki, Pitts, Ambler and Amor while bringing in Moon, Achurch and Vickery. One of those has never played 1st grade has he and he's a 23 year-old back.

If he had come through the Leeds Academy I suspect he'd have been shown the door several years ago.

It's been mentioned elsewhere recently how this alleged greatest ever Leeds squad according to the CEO compares to the one he assembled in 2010. Gone are Brent Webb, Scott Donald, Lee Smith (re-joined part way through that season), Keith Senior, Matt Diskin, Danny Buderus, Ali Lauitiiti, Luke Burgess and Greg Eastwood - replaced by Zak Hardaker, Joel Moon, Richard Moore, Darrell Griffin, Mitch Achurch, Joe Vickery and the promotion from within of Stevie Ward.

Some all-time Leeds greats and RL greats have moved on and been replaced - externally at least - by some pretty average League stars and there are noticeably fewer of them.

Is there a reason you have chosen to omit BJB & Watkins from the promotions from within or do you consider them to be "pretty average" too?

I'd take the 2010 squad to win a hypothetical match against the 2013 squad, or even the Grand Final winning 2012 squad.

But then I'd also take Wigan's 2010 team (with Leuluai, Carmont, Gleason, Riddell, J.Tomkins, Fielden, Deacon) to beat their current side, and Saints' 2010 team (with Graham, Cunningham, Gidley, Pryce, Eastmond, Fa'asavalu) to beat their 2013 outfit. This may be a clue, along with injuries to two of most important players, as to why we didn't win the Grand Final that year.

It's unsurprising that when a salaries go down 15% in real terms in a market that's not entirely closed then quality of personnel will decrease (Warrington excepted, somehow).

So the decision has been made to put Watlins full back for the next 4 games or so. What a shame on the young ones pushing through.

Whats the point having a squad of 30 if you shuffle around the first 19 all the time? I dont see Wigan and Warrington doing that!!!

I dont think Watkins offers anything more at FB than Watson/Sunley apart from body mass. He should have been kept at RC where he is dangerous and let someone come through.

Yes there is. The reason I chose to omit them as additions to the squad from 2010 is because both had already made their Leeds 1st grade debuts April 2008 and in Watkins case was already a part of the 2010 squad (Jones-Bishop spent the season playing his SL elsewhere that season) As neither emerged or were additions to the club at that point I ommitted their inclusion although I fully accept the point they have progressed within it since - as you would no doubt hope and expect they would.

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Quite so. And that would make for an honest appraisal of the current situation in the sport generally and in the club in residence at it's Headingley headquarters.

A squad of players the CEO was publically questioning the desire of in June 2012, weakened still further in 2013 cannot possibly be purported to be the greatest squad ever assembled under his tenure ...... can it ?

You missed Clarkson too, and McShane from 2010.

I think your evaluation is too simplistic.

Pitts, Ambler barely made 10 appearances between them, and were deemed not up to it. Amor, though looking good at Wakefield, was obviously not rated enough, the major big loss. Definitely weakens us IMO. Smith, looked out of shape and uninterested for a couple of years, and offered little when given the opportunity. Vickery may not have shown much in the first couple of games, but I think he's probably ahead of where Smith was last season already. At least he has the desire.

Webb was a liability, with poor disipline. He added something to the Leeds team but was also a liability at some points. I would say Moon is Webb's replacement, and is a very big upgrade. He's settled in the UK already, and has hit the ground running.

McShane vs Lunt is difficult, as Lunt was effective in the play-offs, however, most of the season he was indifferent, and I think we may be a bit rose tinted in this area. Lunt was probably a bit stronger, but he was no Buderus

Achurch vs Amor. A bit early to say, but Amor looks to have the better set of tools, though not seen enough of either to be certain.

With regards to Smith vs Vickery and Amor vs Achurch, the club has decided the outgoing player was not worth a place in the squad, and so has replaced them. I would imagine that the two new recruits are cheaper combined than their pre-decessors.

That extra money allows us to give out new contracts to the likes of Watkins, Ward, Hardaker, Jones-Bishop etc when the need arises.

We may have lost 4 forwards, and only brought in 1, but I think we still have
Peacock
Leuluai
Kirke
Bailey
Moore
Griffin
JJB
Ablett
Delaney
Ward
Clarkson
Achurch.

That's over 2 whole packs (excluding hooker), and still the likes of Singleton etc to come in if needed.

We have trimmed the squad, but I think that its better to have a stronger squad of 22 than a bigger squad of 25, but with weaker players 17-22.

The balance of the squad is better too with the addition of Moon. We now have 2 classy centres and Ablett free to play in his best position in the back row.

Though it seems he is detined to play in the centres.

Not missed but ommitted from the comparison of names just as I did with any player that played 1st grade with Leeds during 2010 (or before) that still remain at the club in 2013. I've conceded some of those coming through the ranks will have moved up the pecking order over the intervening period.

The point was to highlight the quality in the squad of 2010 and for people to judge for themselves if the likes of a 2010 Buderus, Senior, Diskin, Lauitiiti, Eastwood, Burgess etc have been adequately replaced.